Bottled-water purchase leads to night in jail for U.Va. student • Hacker News Board

Re: Bottled-water purchase leads to night in jail for U.Va. student

#41

Post by Natsu » Tue, Jul 02, 2013, 2:00 AM UTC

sophacles wrote: post #14

Natsu wrote: post #4

At least they dropped the charges. Whatever misgivings I have about how the whole thing went down, at least they dropped the charges once things were straightened out. She probably was, technically, guilty of eluding police and such, but I'm glad they did not go through with that. I'm sure she's not happy about spending a night in jail, but just as I give her credit for mistakes in the heat of the moment, I'll give t…

And your opinion of the "cold blooded" mistakes? That is to say planning to swarm a couple of young college kids without any clear identification that they were officials? This type of swarming is always loud confusing and chaotic. All on purpose. The goal is to overwhelm and induce a "deer in the headlights" situation in the people approached. This girl just happened to have good survival instincts and did what she…

My idea of "cold blooded" mistakes are the other cases where they did something like this and then charged them. For those, I have no sympathy whatsoever--those are flatly ridiculous. I don't think this was planned or well-thought out, though, on any side, so I would not classify this as a "cold blooded" mistake by anyone.

Every case of running from the cops could be considered "entrapment" in the narrow sense that the person could not have fled from the police without being chased by them. As such, I do not find it sufficient inducement to support any such claim.

That said, I would certainly acquit anyone whose only crime was fleeing or "resisting" arrest--with no actual underlying crime, I would be highly suspicious of any account given. I am sympathetic to the idea that those are BS charges often added as padding. If there is no evidence of injury to one of the cops, I would consider any charge of "resisting" arrest to be likely BS.

But that's why I support the people who did the right thing and dropped the charges. Cops are not inherently different from anyone else: they make mistakes just like we all do. The big problem is that their screwups cost people more.

Re: Bottled-water purchase leads to night in jail for U.Va. student

#42

Post by Natsu » Tue, Jul 02, 2013, 2:09 AM UTC

cujo wrote: post #18

Natsu wrote: post #4

At least they dropped the charges. Whatever misgivings I have about how the whole thing went down, at least they dropped the charges once things were straightened out. She probably was, technically, guilty of eluding police and such, but I'm glad they did not go through with that. I'm sure she's not happy about spending a night in jail, but just as I give her credit for mistakes in the heat of the moment, I'll give t…

I imagine it's pretty easy to be "technically, guilty of eluding police and such" when you haven't done anything wrong and half dozen people in street clothes come barreling at you screaming and jumping on the hood of your car. Frankly, if half a dozen trained officers are so afraid to rationally approach a sorority girl who might have beer on her, then maybe these fuck-ups need to be fired. Paint the picture for me,…

> I imagine it's pretty easy to be "technically, guilty of eluding police and such" when you haven't done anything wrong and half dozen people in street clothes come barreling at you screaming and jumping on the hood of your car.

Yes, but in other cases, they've turned this technical guilt into actual guilt by charging them. That's why I'm glad they didn't do that this time.

Re: Bottled-water purchase leads to night in jail for U.Va. student

#43

Post by sophacles » Tue, Jul 02, 2013, 9:10 PM UTC

Natsu wrote: post #41

sophacles wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And your opinion of the "cold blooded" mistakes? That is to say planning to swarm a couple of young college kids without any clear identification that they were officials? This type of swarming is always loud confusing and chaotic. All on purpose. The goal is to overwhelm and induce a "deer in the headlights" situation in the people approached. This girl just happened to have good survival instincts and did what she…

My idea of "cold blooded" mistakes are the other cases where they did something like this and then charged them. For those, I have no sympathy whatsoever--those are flatly ridiculous. I don't think this was planned or well-thought out, though, on any side, so I would not classify this as a "cold blooded" mistake by anyone. Every case of running from the cops could be considered "entrapment" in the narrow sense that t…

Wait, so the entire training program, which is about how to shock and stun your opponents was not thought out or planned? No wonder we spend so much on law enforcement - even their training programs are accidental transmissions of knowledge and tactics.

I do honestly appreciate your point of view though: the mental contortions you are able to go through are quite impressive!

Re: Bottled-water purchase leads to night in jail for U.Va. student

#44

Post by Natsu » Fri, Jul 05, 2013, 5:35 PM UTC

sophacles wrote: post #43

Natsu wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My idea of "cold blooded" mistakes are the other cases where they did something like this and then charged them. For those, I have no sympathy whatsoever--those are flatly ridiculous. I don't think this was planned or well-thought out, though, on any side, so I would not classify this as a "cold blooded" mistake by anyone. Every case of running from the cops could be considered "entrapment" in the narrow sense that t…

Wait, so the entire training program, which is about how to shock and stun your opponents was not thought out or planned? No wonder we spend so much on law enforcement - even their training programs are accidental transmissions of knowledge and tactics. I do honestly appreciate your point of view though: the mental contortions you are able to go through are quite impressive!

> Wait, so the entire training program, which is about how to shock and stun your opponents was not thought out or planned?

The reasoning behind that is to reduce the risk of death or serious injury. In spite of the fright, you will note that nobody got injured in this case, frightening as it may have been.

What is your solution, exactly?