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Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School

theatlantic.com

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Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School

#141

Post by magicalist »

kawsper wrote: post #104
joonix wrote: post #40

Are there any private all-boys[1] schools that embrace this side of childhood? Look at tiger cubs and what not: they play, they bounce around, they fight, they figure out the world around them through investigation and exploration. I spent so much of my time outside as a kid, but I also spent a lot of time inside on the computer. Both were amazing worlds where your imagination could run wild; especially in the early…

I don't know about schools, but the kindergarten that I went to was a "nature"-kindergarten, where we were out in the forest 80% of the day, no matter if it rained or snowed. I must have catched a whole forest of insects, and investigated them. It is very popular in Denmark, and I love the forest and the outdoor because of it, especially the different seasons and their impact on nature.

That sounds amazing. Google suggests "Waldkindergarten", at least as a name for the general category. Is that correct? Maybe just in Germany?

Edit: that wikipedia article is maybe the worst thing ever. Learning to be comfortable in a natural environment, more free-form play, these are good things in an of themselves. I don't understand why people need to fall back on crackpot theories to justify a program like this.

Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School

#142

Post by [deleted] »

kawsper wrote: post #104
joonix wrote: post #40

Are there any private all-boys[1] schools that embrace this side of childhood? Look at tiger cubs and what not: they play, they bounce around, they fight, they figure out the world around them through investigation and exploration. I spent so much of my time outside as a kid, but I also spent a lot of time inside on the computer. Both were amazing worlds where your imagination could run wild; especially in the early…

I don't know about schools, but the kindergarten that I went to was a "nature"-kindergarten, where we were out in the forest 80% of the day, no matter if it rained or snowed. I must have catched a whole forest of insects, and investigated them. It is very popular in Denmark, and I love the forest and the outdoor because of it, especially the different seasons and their impact on nature.

[deleted]

Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School

#143

Post by [deleted] »

kawsper wrote: post #104
joonix wrote: post #40

Are there any private all-boys[1] schools that embrace this side of childhood? Look at tiger cubs and what not: they play, they bounce around, they fight, they figure out the world around them through investigation and exploration. I spent so much of my time outside as a kid, but I also spent a lot of time inside on the computer. Both were amazing worlds where your imagination could run wild; especially in the early…

I don't know about schools, but the kindergarten that I went to was a "nature"-kindergarten, where we were out in the forest 80% of the day, no matter if it rained or snowed. I must have catched a whole forest of insects, and investigated them. It is very popular in Denmark, and I love the forest and the outdoor because of it, especially the different seasons and their impact on nature.

[deleted]

Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School

#144

Post by coldtea »

sarchertech wrote: post #45
pekk wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically many, many children have sat still at school and behaved themselves. That doesn't mean that others should be stigmatized, but it's not like this is impossible and unprecedented.

First, historically mass education of the type we now employ is only about a century old, and designed to produce factory workers not to promote creativity. Learning to handle monotonous boredom and obey orders was of primary importance to a factory worker. Second, much of this is unprecedented. When my parents were children, they didn't attend Kindergarten, and first grade was a half day. When my parents younger sib…

>First, historically mass education of the type we now employ is only about a century old, and designed to produce factory workers not to promote creativity. Learning to handle monotonous boredom and obey orders was of primary importance to a factory worker.

Actually it is the inverse. The higher classes (from rich upper class families to wealthy lawyers, doctors, scientists etc) were those that sat down and studied without much fuss, in quite demanding schools. Those classes had a high respect for education, and very demanding curriculums.

It's the working classes (factory workers then, office drones to McDonald burger flippers now) that did and still get by with laxer schooling, less "boring stuff", and more "creativity".

Most of the factory workers in days past didn't even get to go to school, or stopped very early. That they learned "to handle monotonous labour" and "obey orders" at school is a myth. They learned it by necessity at the factory. It was either that or not getting to eat at all.

Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School

#145

Post by alxp »

sarchertech wrote: post #45
pekk wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically many, many children have sat still at school and behaved themselves. That doesn't mean that others should be stigmatized, but it's not like this is impossible and unprecedented.

First, historically mass education of the type we now employ is only about a century old, and designed to produce factory workers not to promote creativity. Learning to handle monotonous boredom and obey orders was of primary importance to a factory worker. Second, much of this is unprecedented. When my parents were children, they didn't attend Kindergarten, and first grade was a half day. When my parents younger sib…

On /r/askhistorians someone asked about this idea that universal education was brought about to raise a nation of docile factory workers.

Here's the thread, the idea gets debunked pretty hard http://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1hbezd/was_th...

Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School

#146

Post by alxp »

sarchertech wrote: post #45
pekk wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically many, many children have sat still at school and behaved themselves. That doesn't mean that others should be stigmatized, but it's not like this is impossible and unprecedented.

First, historically mass education of the type we now employ is only about a century old, and designed to produce factory workers not to promote creativity. Learning to handle monotonous boredom and obey orders was of primary importance to a factory worker. Second, much of this is unprecedented. When my parents were children, they didn't attend Kindergarten, and first grade was a half day. When my parents younger sib…

On /r/askhistorians someone asked about this idea that universal education was brought about to raise a nation of docile factory workers.

Here's the thread, the idea gets debunked pretty hard http://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1hbezd/was_th...

Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School

#147

Post by coldtea »

anigbrowl wrote: post #115
sarchertech wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, historically mass education of the type we now employ is only about a century old, and designed to produce factory workers not to promote creativity. Learning to handle monotonous boredom and obey orders was of primary importance to a factory worker. Second, much of this is unprecedented. When my parents were children, they didn't attend Kindergarten, and first grade was a half day. When my parents younger sib…

designed to produce factory workers not to promote creativity I disagree with this common trope. The benefits of mass literacy are extremely obvious; consider that countries where agriculture was and is more important than industry also adopted universal education.

Indeed, factory workers, back in the Dickensian days, were uneducated masses. As most they had a 5-6 years of schooling, but none at all was also common. They sure didn't learn rote behaviour and obeying orders at "school".

And at the same time, higher classes attended highly demanding schools, with very high discipline and demanding curriculums.

Plus, on the 20th century, mass education was adopted by almost all countries (including agriculture based ones), and it had produced people working mostly in office and service sector jobs, not rote factory assembly lines.

So if anything, it's the inverse of the "old wives tale".

(See, we can also agree on some things!).

Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School

#148

Post by pinaceae »

sarchertech wrote: post #23

School is half education and half babysitting. The problem is that schools aren't aware of that, and they try to cram too much learning/work into a day at school. Kids just don't have the attention span. College isn't taught this way. Colleges realize that even young adults can't handle 40 hours a week of continual instruction, why do we do this kids can? I think the reason, is that we're always behind other countrie…

How many teachers in the past were men?

I went to primary school in the 80ies (Austria) and had only female teachers.

Which completely sucks as those women do. not. understand. young boys. Any natural behavior by young girls is good, any natural behavior by boys is distracting. You can't do that ad nauseum.

My step-son, 10years, had a male teacher for 3 years. What an amazing difference that makes. It's a mixture of laissez faire (I don't give a shit if they are beating each other with sticks) to quick and decisive aggressiveness (immediate consequence, not hour long conversations, nagging, etc.). The girls could not cope with this style so well.

Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School

#149

Post by xxpor »

thezilch wrote: post #83

I had a H.S. teacher admit to my mother that she was grading me on a scale that included how "distracted" I was by my girlfriend in the class. Little did she know that we had broken up months prior, and every guy in the class was probably distracted by her at some point. I had a second teacher that was giving myself and my friends lower grades in computer class, because we were "goofing off" -- making websites, chat…

That reminds me of the time my History teacher called up my mom when I was in 9th grade.

Teacher: Yes, hi. Your son isn't taking notes in class, even though he is required to.

Mom: Well, what did he get on his midterm?

Teacher: 100

Mom: :| Goodbye.

Re: Stop Penalizing Boys for Not Being Able to Sit Still at School

#150

Post by graycat »

sarchertech wrote: post #45
pekk wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically many, many children have sat still at school and behaved themselves. That doesn't mean that others should be stigmatized, but it's not like this is impossible and unprecedented.

First, historically mass education of the type we now employ is only about a century old, and designed to produce factory workers not to promote creativity. Learning to handle monotonous boredom and obey orders was of primary importance to a factory worker. Second, much of this is unprecedented. When my parents were children, they didn't attend Kindergarten, and first grade was a half day. When my parents younger sib…

> no child left behind

How about instead calling it -- teach everyone the same; teach to the bottom of the class, even if they still aren't learning anything; and no child is permitted to get ahead?

But now finally, at last, we have true, 100%, coveted, equality and social justice!!

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