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The End of Car Culture

nytimes.com

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Re: The End of Car Culture

#61

Post by scarmig »

sliverstorm wrote: post #29
nemothekid wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is driving really safer than public transit?

I will note that the concern is not that your bus will crash- it is that you will be mugged and/or shot.

Actually, the number of people physically killed by a Muni bus annually is significant: IIRC, there's a small but non-negligible (single digits) number of people who are run over and killed by Muni every year.

We focus on crime, because it's easy to lash out at order breaking down and can relate to being harassed by the small percentage of Muni riders who can genuinely be considered subhuman refuse. In reality, though, SF has several times as many annual traffic casualties (around 3000, from some rudimentary Googling) as crimes reported on Muni (around 1000).

That latter figure has some factors that may suggest undercounting (it's reported crimes, and I can see how people might have so little faith in Muni that they don't bother reporting it) but also some that suggest overcounting (it includes fare violations and eating on the bus).

Muni certainly needs to be cleaned up, but let's not get ahead of ourselves: you're much more likely to die via automobile in SF than being shot or stabbed on the Muni. I wouldn't be surprised if you're more likely to be killed being hit by a Muni than murdered on the Muni.

Re: The End of Car Culture

#62

Post by BadassFractal »

6d0debc071 wrote: post #8
BadassFractal wrote: post #2

For urban dwellers blessed with proper public transportation and a good Walk Score, a car is a huge headache and drain on finances. They simply all need to go and be replaced with extremely efficient, clean and safe transit systems. Nobody enjoys sitting in traffic for hours a day commuting. Nobody enjoys wasting time on maintenance. Nobody enjoys the process of acquiring the vehicle. At the very least, car sharing i…

> Nobody enjoys sitting in traffic for hours a day commuting. Nobody enjoys wasting time on maintenance. Nobody enjoys the process of acquiring the vehicle. Maybe not, but some of us find it vastly preferable to being crammed in with others on public transport. So don't tar everyone with your particularly preferences thanks.

Absolutely. However I was imagining public transportation being improved to the point where being crammed is no longer a problem due to many more options and routes being run much more often.

At that point it becomes a lot preferable to spend 1h on a train somewhere reading a book / catching up on news or email, rather than getting enraged in gridlock traffic without doing absolutely anything productive (yes, you could theoretically do radio/audiobooks).

Re: The End of Car Culture

#63

Post by [deleted] »

HaloZero wrote: post #39
neutronicus wrote: post #36

I don't know, man. I live in Colorado, in a super bike-friendly city, and I'm buying a car. Can't take public transportation to a campground. Can't take public transportation to a mountain bike trail. Public transportation for skiing is a huge pain in the ass.

But will you ride it daily to work? I think an argument isn't that nobody needs cars but more people will be relying on them less and the total # of hours spent driving them will be reduced.

[deleted]

Re: The End of Car Culture

#64

Post by neutronicus »

qu4z-2 wrote: post #51
HaloZero wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But will you ride it daily to work? I think an argument isn't that nobody needs cars but more people will be relying on them less and the total # of hours spent driving them will be reduced.

Indeed. As you carry on in that direction, hiring a car when necessary may become much more attractive compared to the upkeep on a car you only use occasionally.

I belong to a non-profit carshare, and that shit adds up fast, especially if you want a car for a whole day.

Re: The End of Car Culture

#65

Post by olalonde »

dublinben wrote: post #32
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. The subway is actually very nice, and in Beijing, very cheap (just 2 RMB a trip, no distance limit!). Those who can afford cars aren't using transit, and many of us in the middle are using taxis anyways because they are still not that bad (50 RMB = ~$8 taxi vs. 2 RMB subway...). I would prefer nice public transit though, or better yet, the ability to bike without getting killed by a car.

I think it's a shame that private automobiles were introduced in China. There are too many people in large Chinese cities for them to all want to ride in a car. Imagine how much more livable these cities would be if everyone was either riding a bike or the subway.

I don't know about Beijing but in Shenzhen, lots of the newer apartments are located in "no car" gardens that can span over a few blocks. There are lots of trees, swimming pools, tennis courts, etc. Quite livable places actually.

Re: The End of Car Culture

#66

Post by seanmcdirmid »

olalonde wrote: post #65
dublinben wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a shame that private automobiles were introduced in China. There are too many people in large Chinese cities for them to all want to ride in a car. Imagine how much more livable these cities would be if everyone was either riding a bike or the subway.

I don't know about Beijing but in Shenzhen, lots of the newer apartments are located in "no car" gardens that can span over a few blocks. There are lots of trees, swimming pools, tennis courts, etc. Quite livable places actually.

All nicer apartment blocks are like that, actually; they usually have a garage underneath but even this is too expensive for most people (whose work unit will give them a Mercedes even if they can't afford a parking space!), so they park on the street...fun stuff.

Re: The End of Car Culture

#67

Post by arnoooooo »

neutronicus wrote: post #36

I don't know, man. I live in Colorado, in a super bike-friendly city, and I'm buying a car. Can't take public transportation to a campground. Can't take public transportation to a mountain bike trail. Public transportation for skiing is a huge pain in the ass.

You can rent when you need it. For the amount a car costs you each year, you can rent a car or take a taxi a good number of times.

Re: The End of Car Culture

#68

Post by olalonde »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #66
olalonde wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about Beijing but in Shenzhen, lots of the newer apartments are located in "no car" gardens that can span over a few blocks. There are lots of trees, swimming pools, tennis courts, etc. Quite livable places actually.

All nicer apartment blocks are like that, actually; they usually have a garage underneath but even this is too expensive for most people (whose work unit will give them a Mercedes even if they can't afford a parking space!), so they park on the street...fun stuff.

I've actually always wondered about that. I often see loads of Mercedes/BMW/Lexus/Porsche cars parked around old buildings where the rent is less than 150$/month. If what you say is true (companies giving Mercedes to their employees), why is this? Or do some Chinese prefer owning an expensive car rather then living in a nice place?

Re: The End of Car Culture

#69

Post by ttrx »

mertd wrote: post #57
ttrx wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DITTO on manual cars. I always thought that driving stick is so much more fun, but it's impossible to get a rental car with manual transmission. The entire fleet of Zipcars has no manual gear cars, for example. And I don't understand why... everybody is licensed driver, which means everybody can drive stick. Also manual transmission cars are cheaper. So what compels rental companies to have automatic transmission fle…

> everybody is licensed driver, which means everybody can drive stick. You can take your driving test in an automatic in many states (US).

Huh, I did not know that.

Btw, are you Turkish?

Re: The End of Car Culture

#70

Post by cpursley »

sempergumbi wrote: post #34
vishaldpatel wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New York, San Francisco, Boston, Chicago, and Philadelphia are towns with the best walk-score in America. For various reasons, it is still much cheaper to live in the suburbs and commute into the city than to live in San Francisco. I wonder how the other walkable cities are fairing. Perhaps when people buy homes, they tend to not buy a new car at the same time - prior to the housing crisis, many people bought lots of…

Used Hondas and Toyotas did not depreciate 2010-2013 because the Cash-for-Clunkers débâcle reduced the supply of used cars, keeping up their price. The suggestion that destroying operational vehicles would be a net gain for the economy is an excellent illustration of the broken window fallacy. Cash-for-clunkers helped middle and upper-middle class people, including some friends of mine, who wanted to buy new cars. Th…

Don't you just love central planning? It's always the poor that it hurts the most.
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