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The End of Car Culture

nytimes.com

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Re: The End of Car Culture

#21

Post by sliverstorm »

sowrong wrote: post #12
andyl wrote: post #5

The end of car culture can't come soon enough.

this article is wrongheaded in many, many ways. The crux of the problem is that cars are designed and produced ahead of what is actually wanted and desired without concern whether there is actually an impedence mismatch with what consumers want in a car. For example, modular design in cars no longer exists. You can't find a car anywhere that can be transformed with add-ons between a commuter car to a weekender car to…

What? When was the last time a car could be converted from a sports car to a capable tow vehicle with an add-on? You can bolt a tow hitch on just about any car, but tow vehicle/sports car/commuter/weekender runs so much deeper than that- at least if you want it to be better than "poor" in all of the above categories.

The same is true with manual transmission, you can't find it on the market ANYWHERE.

Patently false. Manual transmissions are not as common as automatics, and certain vehicles no longer offer a manual transmission, but they can still be found in many different vehicles.

Re: The End of Car Culture

#22

Post by potatolicious »

axuaq wrote: post #16
BadassFractal wrote: post #2

For urban dwellers blessed with proper public transportation and a good Walk Score, a car is a huge headache and drain on finances. They simply all need to go and be replaced with extremely efficient, clean and safe transit systems. Nobody enjoys sitting in traffic for hours a day commuting. Nobody enjoys wasting time on maintenance. Nobody enjoys the process of acquiring the vehicle. At the very least, car sharing i…

Give me a public transportation system that runs on time, doesn't spread disease, doesn't have punk kids who confront you for no reason, is safe, and has sane time schedules and I'll be happy. Until then, I'll always prefer driving/walking/biking/anything. Unfortunately, I'm in a situation where I can't drive now, and I have to deal with an awful San Francisco public transit system that does 0 of the things I listed.

> "Give me a public transportation system that runs on time, doesn't spread disease, doesn't have punk kids who confront you for no reason, is safe, and has sane time schedules and I'll be happy."

The problem is that you live in San Francisco.

The biggest problem in that list (safety/perceived safety) has more to do with the city than the transit system itself. It's not a brokenness in the transportation system (though more can be done to curb it, certainly), it's a brokenness in the society it serves.

It's always a little depressing to think about how so many other cities - both bigger and smaller - on this continent put the transit of San Francisco utter, complete shame.

Re: The End of Car Culture

#23

Post by potatolicious »

nemothekid wrote: post #19
axuaq wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give me a public transportation system that runs on time, doesn't spread disease, doesn't have punk kids who confront you for no reason, is safe, and has sane time schedules and I'll be happy. Until then, I'll always prefer driving/walking/biking/anything. Unfortunately, I'm in a situation where I can't drive now, and I have to deal with an awful San Francisco public transit system that does 0 of the things I listed.

Is driving really safer than public transit?

In San Francisco? Probably yeah. Some of the routes are extremely rough, especially at night.

On many bus routes the conditions can be positively third world. Graffiti everywhere - seats, floors, windows. Human excrement. Urine. Addicts. Homeless. MUNI buses are one of the less fortunate places you can find yourself anywhere.

Having lived there in the past, I can sympathize with residents who want to drive, or take Ubers everywhere. The public transit in the city can be a very foul experience - though this is largely a reflection of the city rather than the system itself.

Re: The End of Car Culture

#24

Post by sowrong »

andyl wrote: post #5

The end of car culture can't come soon enough.

don't get hung up on this linked article alone (http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/motoring/the-modular...) , but modular cars - cars as platform for add-ons based on need - should have arrived long ago. They haven't materialized yet.

Re: The End of Car Culture

#25

Post by discodave »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #13
nostromo wrote: post #10

One thing missed by most of these post-auto stories: transit used to be sooo boring , and no longer is. I'm old enough to remember riding the bus before mp3 players and smart phones. Your only options were to read or to bring a CD player. Walkmans (Walkmen?) were a pain: batteries got expensive, and carrying more than 1 or 2 CDs was a pain, so you ended up listen to a few tracks over and over. Newspapers and books we…

I wish I could say this about transit in Beijing. The subways are so crowded you barely get to sit down, perhaps you would have enough room to fiddle with your smartphone if only there was signal for it in the tunnel (damn China Unicom), and standing for 45 minutes kind of sucks. Taxi!

That's an economic issue, the roads in beijing are most likely croweded too and to boot most of those people are using public transport because they can't afford cars.

(I am using genaralisations about China to make these statements)

Re: The End of Car Culture

#26

Post by sowrong »

sliverstorm wrote: post #21
sowrong wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this article is wrongheaded in many, many ways. The crux of the problem is that cars are designed and produced ahead of what is actually wanted and desired without concern whether there is actually an impedence mismatch with what consumers want in a car. For example, modular design in cars no longer exists. You can't find a car anywhere that can be transformed with add-ons between a commuter car to a weekender car to…

What? When was the last time a car could be converted from a sports car to a capable tow vehicle with an add-on ? You can bolt a tow hitch on just about any car, but tow vehicle/sports car/commuter/weekender runs so much deeper than that- at least if you want it to be better than "poor" in all of the above categories. The same is true with manual transmission, you can't find it on the market ANYWHERE. Patently false.…

"certain vehicles no longer offer a manual transmission"

Exactly right.

Re: The End of Car Culture

#27

Post by seanmcdirmid »

discodave wrote: post #25
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I could say this about transit in Beijing. The subways are so crowded you barely get to sit down, perhaps you would have enough room to fiddle with your smartphone if only there was signal for it in the tunnel (damn China Unicom), and standing for 45 minutes kind of sucks. Taxi!

That's an economic issue, the roads in beijing are most likely croweded too and to boot most of those people are using public transport because they can't afford cars. (I am using genaralisations about China to make these statements)

True. The subway is actually very nice, and in Beijing, very cheap (just 2 RMB a trip, no distance limit!). Those who can afford cars aren't using transit, and many of us in the middle are using taxis anyways because they are still not that bad (50 RMB = ~$8 taxi vs. 2 RMB subway...).

I would prefer nice public transit though, or better yet, the ability to bike without getting killed by a car.

Re: The End of Car Culture

#28

Post by sliverstorm »

sowrong wrote: post #26
sliverstorm wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? When was the last time a car could be converted from a sports car to a capable tow vehicle with an add-on ? You can bolt a tow hitch on just about any car, but tow vehicle/sports car/commuter/weekender runs so much deeper than that- at least if you want it to be better than "poor" in all of the above categories. The same is true with manual transmission, you can't find it on the market ANYWHERE. Patently false.…

"certain vehicles no longer offer a manual transmission" Exactly right.

you can't find it on the market ANYWHERE.

certain vehicles no longer offer a manual transmission

Are you trying to tell me these two statements are equivalent?

Re: The End of Car Culture

#29

Post by sliverstorm »

nemothekid wrote: post #19
axuaq wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give me a public transportation system that runs on time, doesn't spread disease, doesn't have punk kids who confront you for no reason, is safe, and has sane time schedules and I'll be happy. Until then, I'll always prefer driving/walking/biking/anything. Unfortunately, I'm in a situation where I can't drive now, and I have to deal with an awful San Francisco public transit system that does 0 of the things I listed.

Is driving really safer than public transit?

I will note that the concern is not that your bus will crash- it is that you will be mugged and/or shot.

Re: The End of Car Culture

#30

Post by kunai »

nostromo wrote: post #10

One thing missed by most of these post-auto stories: transit used to be sooo boring , and no longer is. I'm old enough to remember riding the bus before mp3 players and smart phones. Your only options were to read or to bring a CD player. Walkmans (Walkmen?) were a pain: batteries got expensive, and carrying more than 1 or 2 CDs was a pain, so you ended up listen to a few tracks over and over. Newspapers and books we…

Or you could just take a nap...
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