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No free trade agreement if charges of espionage are true, warns EU Commissioner

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Re: No free trade agreement if charges of espionage are true, warns EU Commissioner

#61

Post by jussij »

mortehu wrote: post #55
jussij wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest problem with GM is it puts the world's food production into the hands of a select few multinational companies. Companies like Monsanto have already shown they are prepared to fight hard to keep control their GM monopolies: http://www.dailyfinance.com/on/monsanto-gmo-roundup-ready-se...

> Companies like Monsanto have already shown they are prepared to fight hard to keep control their GM monopolies: An analogy: If Microsoft sues someone for selling unlicensed copies of MS PowerPoint, can they be construed to be fighting hard to keep control of their presentation software monopoly?

The big difference is the former is just some crappy software, while the latter is about control of the world's food supply.

Given the choice of a world fed on GMO seeds, controlled by multi-nationals, rammed down our throats by governments with their own secret agendas, or the good old fashion natural seeds, I'll take the later any day.

Re: No free trade agreement if charges of espionage are true, warns EU Commissioner

#62

Post by pvnick »

jussij wrote: post #61
mortehu wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Companies like Monsanto have already shown they are prepared to fight hard to keep control their GM monopolies: An analogy: If Microsoft sues someone for selling unlicensed copies of MS PowerPoint, can they be construed to be fighting hard to keep control of their presentation software monopoly?

The big difference is the former is just some crappy software, while the latter is about control of the world's food supply. Given the choice of a world fed on GMO seeds, controlled by multi-nationals, rammed down our throats by governments with their own secret agendas, or the good old fashion natural seeds, I'll take the later any day.

Fine, then don't buy them. But don't be a hypocrite and restrict their access from others who may be too poor to buy organic.

Re: No free trade agreement if charges of espionage are true, warns EU Commissioner

#63

Post by arg01 »

mortehu wrote: post #55
jussij wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest problem with GM is it puts the world's food production into the hands of a select few multinational companies. Companies like Monsanto have already shown they are prepared to fight hard to keep control their GM monopolies: http://www.dailyfinance.com/on/monsanto-gmo-roundup-ready-se...

> Companies like Monsanto have already shown they are prepared to fight hard to keep control their GM monopolies: An analogy: If Microsoft sues someone for selling unlicensed copies of MS PowerPoint, can they be construed to be fighting hard to keep control of their presentation software monopoly?

The expanded analogy, can Microsoft create a virus that installs MS PowerPoint then sue those who purposefully don't install an antivirus in the hopes of catching MS Powerpoint.

Re: No free trade agreement if charges of espionage are true, warns EU Commissioner

#64

Post by asperous »

oleganza wrote: post #7

Actual translation: because of the behavior of U.S. government, E.U. government(s) will make it hard for E.U. citizens to trade with U.S. citizens. So normal people get spied on and bullied by one government, then because of that their life is made even more complicated by some other government. Great outcome! When people will realize that the problem is always in the governments themselves as a concept, not in any p…

There is an in-between between no government and an all-powerful one: a government that solely exists to secure the rights of its citizens.

"to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it,..."

It is of my opinion that power corrupts, and that's why you shouldn't trade your rights away in return for a promise of fixing problems, but there is some disagreement on this point.

Re: No free trade agreement if charges of espionage are true, warns EU Commissioner

#65

Post by asperous »

rorrr2 wrote: post #13
oleganza wrote: post #7

Actual translation: because of the behavior of U.S. government, E.U. government(s) will make it hard for E.U. citizens to trade with U.S. citizens. So normal people get spied on and bullied by one government, then because of that their life is made even more complicated by some other government. Great outcome! When people will realize that the problem is always in the governments themselves as a concept, not in any p…

It deeply saddens me that a tiny tiny percentage of the population can really fuck up the lives of everyone - financially, socially, politically, religiously. The real problem is in how we set up the governments. We give to much power to a few people. What we really need to do is let people vote on individual issues. Want to go to war that will affect everyone and will cost trillions? Let's have a vote.

Actually this is interesting because America's representative democracy was set up because taking votes on things such as war was too expensive and slow.

But today we have the technology to take a nationwide vote within a day so it is within the realm of possibility.

Re: No free trade agreement if charges of espionage are true, warns EU Commissioner

#66

Post by jussij »

mortehu wrote: post #59
jussij wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no evidence to support any indication that this these practices are harmful to human You haven't heard of BSE (Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy, or Mad Cow Disease)? http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/bse/ The likely cause of that disease was farmers feeding cows other cows (in the form of meal). Lots of strange stuff happens in the name of making a profit.

It's well known why you shouldn't feed a species to itself; they will be susceptible to the same pathogens, and the pathogens will accumulate from one generation to the next. Why are you making the leap from this to unrelated practices?

That practice was legal in the US up until 2009 and while that one is now gone, there are plenty of other whacky practices used in its place.

As a replacement the next wacky idea was to feed cows with chicken manure mixed in hay.

The only problem is cows can still be fed to chickens and the cows then eat the chicken crap, so exactly has changed?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-greger-md/mad-cow-dise...

Re: No free trade agreement if charges of espionage are true, warns EU Commissioner

#67

Post by gst »

pvnick wrote: post #42
wazoox wrote: post #6

Frankly, I can't see a single good reason for this trade agreement, and a lot of good reasons against, starting with that I (and all other Europeans) don't want GM food, hormone beef and chlorinated chicken in my plate any day soon.

I don't normally downvote comments I read here, but c'mon man. First of all, your comment was off-topic. Second of all, at least with the GM food, yours is a knee-jerk reaction unsupported by science. GM food has the potential to save billions (with a B) of lives, starting with Golden Rice.

The problem is not allowing or disallowing GM food, but the strict labeling requirements in the EU. If there's GM involved it must be labeled accordingly. Unrelated to if oppposing GM food is a "knee-jerk" reaction or not, the labeling requirement is a good thing, as it gives the consumer the choice which type of food he prefers. The trade agreement would weaken those labeling requirements, which is the main source for concerns here.

Re: No free trade agreement if charges of espionage are true, warns EU Commissioner

#68

Post by jussij »

pvnick wrote: post #62
jussij wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big difference is the former is just some crappy software, while the latter is about control of the world's food supply. Given the choice of a world fed on GMO seeds, controlled by multi-nationals, rammed down our throats by governments with their own secret agendas, or the good old fashion natural seeds, I'll take the later any day.

Fine, then don't buy them. But don't be a hypocrite and restrict their access from others who may be too poor to buy organic.

> Fine, then don't buy them

If they have a monopoly you no longer have that choice.

The 'big four' biotech seed companies—Monsanto, DuPont/Pioneer Hi-Bred, Syngenta and Dow AgroSciences own 80% of the US corn market and 70% of the soybean business.

They are looking to achieve similar results in the rest of thw world.

The US government went after Microsoft because it was seen as a monopoly in the PC market.

Why doesn't the US government step in to stop this GOM monopoly?

Re: No free trade agreement if charges of espionage are true, warns EU Commissioner

#69

Post by threeseed »

jussij wrote: post #61
mortehu wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Companies like Monsanto have already shown they are prepared to fight hard to keep control their GM monopolies: An analogy: If Microsoft sues someone for selling unlicensed copies of MS PowerPoint, can they be construed to be fighting hard to keep control of their presentation software monopoly?

The big difference is the former is just some crappy software, while the latter is about control of the world's food supply. Given the choice of a world fed on GMO seeds, controlled by multi-nationals, rammed down our throats by governments with their own secret agendas, or the good old fashion natural seeds, I'll take the later any day.

Give us all a break.

It's so easy to make that choice when you and your family aren't literally starving to death.

Re: No free trade agreement if charges of espionage are true, warns EU Commissioner

#70

Post by pvnick »

threeseed wrote: post #69
jussij wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big difference is the former is just some crappy software, while the latter is about control of the world's food supply. Given the choice of a world fed on GMO seeds, controlled by multi-nationals, rammed down our throats by governments with their own secret agendas, or the good old fashion natural seeds, I'll take the later any day.

Give us all a break. It's so easy to make that choice when you and your family aren't literally starving to death.

Why is this simple piece of logic so difficult for anti-GMO extremists to understand? These technologies literally have the potential, without even being hyperbolic, to save Billions of lives. And these clowns are worried about the providers making an extra buck.
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