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German Federal Prosecutor's office gets involved in the NSA data scandal

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Re: German Federal Prosecutor's office gets involved in the NSA data scandal

#31

Post by iSnow »

stfu wrote: post #15

Is there any hope that something tangible is going to come out of that? Given its history it seems more than unlikely that Germany has any abilities of severe actions. Oh well, I am sure they are going to send a detailed list of issues that need to be addressed through "diplomatic channels"...

Doubtful, the German secret service is dependent on the CIA/NSA to get their job done, they are awfully bad and will help in every way to cover this.

German politics will just bend over making a happy face.

But it will do really severe harm to the image of the US in the German population. A lot of Germans have a love/hate relationship with the US, and this will not go down unnoticed.

Re: German Federal Prosecutor's office gets involved in the NSA data scandal

#32

Post by krbbltr »

arrrg wrote: post #26
Vivtek wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some have called for a suspension of talks on the trans-Atlantic free trade agreement. And now we start talking about costs to the United States.

And Germany. Free trade is win-win, definitely when two countries are similarity developed. Not going forward with this would be stupid and benefit no one. It's not even a threat.

I'm not so sure. What if one of those countries is not actually sovereign? What if there is also one-sided industrial espionage happening on a massive scale?

I'm not convinced it's win-win when the game is rigged.

Maybe my reasoning is overly simplistic. Maybe I'm being paranoid. But I'm wary now of every agenda the US is pushing.

Re: German Federal Prosecutor's office gets involved in the NSA data scandal

#33

Post by teeja »

Vivtek wrote: post #9

Surveillance of Germany: Federal Prosecutor's office gets involved in the NSA data scandal By Jörg Schindler Central NSA offices in Fort Meade: spy programs are a case for German jurisprudence According to SPIEGEL's sources, surveillance by the the American spy service NSA has now also come to the attention of the Federal Prosecutor's office. Information is being gathered in Karlsruhe about the American and British s…

Look at the top of Der Spiegel's page: where it says "English" leads to the International Edition. http://www.spiegel.de/international/

Re: German Federal Prosecutor's office gets involved in the NSA data scandal

#34

Post by krapp »

abraininavat wrote: post #25
Vivtek wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some have called for a suspension of talks on the trans-Atlantic free trade agreement. And now we start talking about costs to the United States.

Costs to the US?? What do you mean?? But people have been blathering for weeks on HackerNews that the US spying on anyone who's a foreigner is good and right and expected! Surely they can't have neglected to consider that there's only so long you can fuck with people's liberties, whether within your own borders or without, before the lie is revealed and the system build around it crumbles. No, I won't buy it. I stand…

Oh go stick your schadenfreude where the sun don't shine.

Re: German Federal Prosecutor's office gets involved in the NSA data scandal

#35

Post by krapp »

noloqy wrote: post #7

I'm surprised, and also quite disappointed, that only Germany (that I know of) takes the spying on its citizens so seriously. I wish more governments would inquire the legality of the NSA programs, and would dare to take action in case it is ruled illegal.

More governments have probably been complicit with the US in one way or another, perhaps in exchange for aid in spying on their own people or other countries.

Re: German Federal Prosecutor's office gets involved in the NSA data scandal

#37

Post by Vivtek »

arrrg wrote: post #26
Vivtek wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some have called for a suspension of talks on the trans-Atlantic free trade agreement. And now we start talking about costs to the United States.

And Germany. Free trade is win-win, definitely when two countries are similarity developed. Not going forward with this would be stupid and benefit no one. It's not even a threat.

You're German, right? (Judging by other comments you've made.)

You can sweat us a lot longer than we can sweat you. You haven't shipped your productive industries to China, you see.

There will be free trade. But don't be surprised if the terms just got a shitload more favorable to Germany. This surveillance thing was boneheaded stupid - I doubt you can really grasp the extent to which Americans really don't understand the independent existence of other countries.

Re: German Federal Prosecutor's office gets involved in the NSA data scandal

#38

Post by Vivtek »

znowi wrote: post #28
qwertzlcoatl wrote: post #24

It's so funny to see all this railing up against NSA and PRISM, while tomorrow, the first of July 2013, the "Bestandsdatenauskunft" will be implemented as law in Germany. A commentator from Die Zeit newspaper tersely summed up the intentionally abstruse wording of the new rules. The law means, “that police and intelligence services will in the future be allowed to obtain extremely personal information about mobile ph…

I'm surprised Germans are not up in arms about it given the Stasi history. They should know better. Similar-minded agencies in other nations most likely will try to catch up with NSA/PRISM. It is a serious issue and I hope people will not let the NSA scandal be a cover for those initiatives, but an aid to expose them.

Yeah, I saw a demonstration in Stuttgart once against the census - and now they're fine with Bestandsdatenauskunft?

Re: German Federal Prosecutor's office gets involved in the NSA data scandal

#39

Post by Vivtek »

abraininavat wrote: post #25
Vivtek wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some have called for a suspension of talks on the trans-Atlantic free trade agreement. And now we start talking about costs to the United States.

Costs to the US?? What do you mean?? But people have been blathering for weeks on HackerNews that the US spying on anyone who's a foreigner is good and right and expected! Surely they can't have neglected to consider that there's only so long you can fuck with people's liberties, whether within your own borders or without, before the lie is revealed and the system build around it crumbles. No, I won't buy it. I stand…

Well, speak for yourself. I'm a part of the community, too, and I certainly haven't noticed myself alone in expressing my outrage.

Re: German Federal Prosecutor's office gets involved in the NSA data scandal

#40

Post by Vivtek »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #16
gerhardi wrote: post #4

Now my (naive?) hopes are a tiny bit higher that the American espionage suspects will get extradited from USA to Germany to face charges and possible punishments. Edit: has such action EVER taken place?

I think there have been long standing arrest warrants for Donald Rumsfeld and (maybe) Dick Cheney in Germany for Iraq war crimes, but no extradition. Is this correct, or were some countries just talking about war crimes trials?

I thought Brussels found against at least one of them - but I don't know for sure.
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