Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

translate.google.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 158 posts

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#141

Post by dsl »

chj wrote: post #86
LinaLauneBaer wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I am misunderstanding you but I disagree that the US runs Germany. Or what do you mean by saying "the US runs the shop since the end of WW2"? Yes, the US has stationed troops and nuclear missels in Germany but this is far from "running the shop".

Interesting. Is the US army inside Germany a left over from cold war? Do they have the capability to own the country if necessary?

The US has the ability to take control of any country within 24 to 48 hours. Every year we draw up invasion plans for everyone else in the world. The CIA World Factbook [1] is the unclassified by-product of this effort if you are interested at poking into the details.

As with any other country with a large standing army (Germany sits somewhere between South Korea and France in terms of capabilities), it would probably begin with large scale air strikes with stealth bombers against military targets. Within the first 4 hours, most militarized airfields and radar installations would be destroyed. The ground forces would invade from probably Italy and Poland, both highly US dependent states, assuming that France and the UK would stay neutral in such an attack. You'd probably see some guerrilla warfare because the Germans are strong-willed, but the vast majority of the population is westernized enough to not put up a real fight. But none of this would happen until the US has at least 2 carriers in the Baltic Sea, so Germany would definitely have advance warning, and hopefully the foresight to negotiate.

Germany has no nuclear deterrent, as it simply hosts US missiles by way of NATO [2].

EDIT: This spells it out pretty clearly, the US has more helicopters than Germany has tanks ships and planes combined: http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.a...

1. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/ 2. http://www.rusi.org/publications/occasionalpapers/ref:O4B991...

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#142

Post by e3pi »

ex-NSA off-grid Edward(!) `Brill' Lyle, (aka `Harry `The Call' Caul' The Conversation (film) 1972 (~prequel)) in Enemy of the State (film) 1998 (~sequel), teaches us a way to get reins on NSA's wild horses is to bug(1) and wiretap Clapper's and Kieth Alexander's homes. In addition to heroic(martyr?) whistleblowers, the world needs angry and experienced curmudgeon tradecraft operatives:

(1) "...will find them and have the NSA start an investigation. Lyle also deposits $140,000 into _______'s bank account to make it appear that he is taking bribes.

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#144

Post by JulienSchmidt »

vidarh wrote: post #114
JulienSchmidt wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the FDP profit from this? AFAIK they never positioned themselves in favor of privacy. I think the green party (Bündnis 90 / Die Grüne) will profit considerably more from this. They are know promoters of privacy and personal rights. "Die Linke" could also profit from this.

> "Die Linke" could also profit from this. That would be a bit ironic, given that Die Linke includes former PDS. (for those not following German politics: PDS was "Party for Democratic Socialism", formed from the remains of the old "SED" - Socialist Unity Party, better known as the ruling party of DDR and originators of Stasi)

They already made posters with the title abolish intelligence agencies.

I find it hard to believe them, though. They seem to be against anything as soon as it gets unpopular.

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#145

Post by abraininavat »

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #127
beedogs wrote: post #63

And this is how the US treats its "allies". I can see this having far-reaching consequences in international relations, all of them negative, for America.

Except that most of these nations are willing participants in the spying programs. They may make noises to try and pacify the electorate, but I doubt the governments are interested in changing much.

People keep saying this. A democratic nation derives its power from its people. These nations are not willing participants in the spying program. What you mean is that their elected representatives have sold out their country.

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#146

Post by abraininavat »

tobiasu wrote: post #119
mtgx wrote: post #57

This would be a good opportunity for Germany/EU to give Snowden asylum, if only to show US that they screwed up so much, it's EU itself, their ally, who will give him asylum.

You are operating under the assumption that our politicians didn't know about this before. There's a really really low chance this is true. It's much more plausible that everyone has been spying on everyone else and countries with restrictions regarding spying on their own citizens have backroom deals to get access to intelligence via other nations. To give an example how tight the relations are between the US and Ge…

I don't see that assumption in the parent's post. You apparently are operating under the assumption that politicians are less two-faced than they are.

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#147

Post by tobiasu »

abraininavat wrote: post #146
tobiasu wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are operating under the assumption that our politicians didn't know about this before. There's a really really low chance this is true. It's much more plausible that everyone has been spying on everyone else and countries with restrictions regarding spying on their own citizens have backroom deals to get access to intelligence via other nations. To give an example how tight the relations are between the US and Ge…

I don't see that assumption in the parent's post. You apparently are operating under the assumption that politicians are less two-faced than they are.

So, you think Germany would pretend to be pissed off enough make moves against the US, instead of making their usual hollow threats that go nowhere?

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#148

Post by abraininavat »

tobiasu wrote: post #147
abraininavat wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see that assumption in the parent's post. You apparently are operating under the assumption that politicians are less two-faced than they are.

So, you think Germany would pretend to be pissed off enough make moves against the US, instead of making their usual hollow threats that go nowhere?

Of course! The government will go as far (and only as far) as it takes to quell the dissatisfaction brewing among the people. If that goes as far as real action, that's what will happen.

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#149

Post by tobiasu »

abraininavat wrote: post #148
tobiasu wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, you think Germany would pretend to be pissed off enough make moves against the US, instead of making their usual hollow threats that go nowhere?

Of course! The government will go as far (and only as far) as it takes to quell the dissatisfaction brewing among the people. If that goes as far as real action, that's what will happen.

IMO that would be a too strong a response for a country that heavily depends on export.

Re: Secret Documents: NSA monitored 500 million connections in Germany

#150

Post by ojbyrne »

dsl wrote: post #141
chj wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Is the US army inside Germany a left over from cold war? Do they have the capability to own the country if necessary?

The US has the ability to take control of any country within 24 to 48 hours. Every year we draw up invasion plans for everyone else in the world. The CIA World Factbook [1] is the unclassified by-product of this effort if you are interested at poking into the details. As with any other country with a large standing army (Germany sits somewhere between South Korea and France in terms of capabilities), it would probabl…

That's all very nice, but while the US seems to be able to invade countries at will, they don't seem capable of occupying even the weakest of countries - Iraq and Afghanistan being cases in point.
Post reply on HN