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The Criminal N.S.A.

nytimes.com

51–60 of 116 posts

Re: The Criminal N.S.A.

#51
post #37

Here's the thing. If file-sharers have the right to anonymous speech , what does that say about everyone being spied upon by the NSA? http://torrentfreak.com/file-sharers-have-right-to-anonymous... I'm starting to think more and more that beyond this being a US Constitution issue, it's a human rights issue, and we should fight to ban all such spying internationally. Yes, I realize how hard that that may be to achieve…

We should be doing this. The United States' organic law is based on natural rights. Defined as the innate right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Our rights do not come from the Bill of Rights. If the US repealed or diminished the Fourth Amendment then we'd have the Right of Revolution to alter or abolish said government based on the organic law. (Many people will disagree with this saying the US organic law has no constitutional force.)

Every human being has the natural right to privacy regardless if they are a US citizen. It's sad and ironic that the US Government claims that foreigners have no natural rights. There should be a global agreement where countries respect the innate rights of all human beings and if not, are punished.

This is the worst aspect of globalization -- the refutation of "sacred and undeniable" rights.

Re: The Criminal N.S.A.

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you construing an unconstitutional surveillance program as a political question? I don't see how any of the Court Cases listed on the wikipedia article are relevant. These all seem to relate to truly political things, like which branch has what authority, or how districts are apportioned. The article only cites 5 areas the courts have clear precedent on - wars, treaties, gerrymandering, impeachment, as well a…

I'm not all that sure it is unconstitutional, for one thing - aren't you begging the question here? And on a more general level, shouldn't you be considering precedent on justiciability, rather than basing your whole argument on your personal opinion of the waht the constitution means? I might note in asssing that I favor a constitutional amendment that would create an explicit right to privacy; I'm not in favor of a…

[deleted]

Re: The Criminal N.S.A.

#53
post #11

"Let’s turn to Prism: the streamlined, electronic seizure of communications from Internet companies." OK, good so far, PRISM does indeed streamline and automate the process... "... Prism is further proof that the agency is collecting vast amounts of e-mails and other messages — including communications to, from and between Americans." ??? PRISM was the one thing I stopped being worried about as soon as I figured out…

So from Wikipedia, Boundless Informant uses 504 separate DNR (electronic surveillance program records) and DNI (metadata) collection sources known as SIGADs. In a 30-day period, they collected 3 billion data elements from within the US from these SIGADS.

And the PRISM document says it is the "the number one source of raw intelligence used for NSA analytic reports". Doesn't that mean that PRISM is the majority source of those 3 billion data elements?

And why did Page, Zuckerberg and Apple say they never heard of PRISM? Perhaps I am wrong but it's somewhat confusing!

Re: The Criminal N.S.A.

#54
post #39
post #37

Here's the thing. If file-sharers have the right to anonymous speech , what does that say about everyone being spied upon by the NSA? http://torrentfreak.com/file-sharers-have-right-to-anonymous... I'm starting to think more and more that beyond this being a US Constitution issue, it's a human rights issue, and we should fight to ban all such spying internationally. Yes, I realize how hard that that may be to achieve…

How about we popularize encryption, and take the choice out of the hands of corporations and governments?

That would be helpful but ultimately will not address this as it needs to be made clear to governments that they are not welcome in our private lives except under cover of a specific investigation and public warrant. Encryption would be helpful but if the government compels your email provider to hand over your stored emails or just email headers they can still get a lot of information about you even if you always use encryption to send/receive and try to encrypt content that you send. Even just your IP logs tell a tale of your location potentially over your entire life.

In addition to things you control there are many sources of metadata (phone records, bank records, online services, shopping records, web searches/visits, forum comments, unencrypted emails from companies and others) which are really intrusive if made public in aggregate, and with the recent assertion by the US administration that all these records have no expectation of privacy (because you shared them with someone or a company), encrypting just your emails will seem like a hollow victory when the government can collate and analyse all of your activity, online and anything offline which leaves a digital trail, for your entire life.

I do wonder whether the coming of age of a new generation, and the discovery of this widespread invasion of privacy in the name of fighting terror, will erode still further the allegiance to national governments we still feel and lead to supra-national collectives on the internet having more and more sway in our lives. After the hubristic actions of our governments and their pretentions to omniscience about our lives ('mastering the internet', 'total information awareness' etc), our interests as citizens seem to me much closer aligned with other users on the internet and far less aligned with either corporate or national interests.

Re: The Criminal N.S.A.

#55

The blowback from this mess could very soon be more severe than everyone might think. I expect several foreign countries to ban American tech company operations in their jurisdictions. The bans in the foreign nations could easily stem from foreign business owners pressuring their politicians to ban American-operated companies under the guise of national security, privacy, and anti-American-power-mongering, but their…

Thou doth jest. Most western countries are lap-dogs to the US, and almost certainly exchange spying data with the US so that they don't breach their own privacy laws. This will have little impact with US allies.

Even if the intelligence governmental agencies exchange that in the US (and many certainly do), that doesn't mean they can't impose rules on businesses (expanding the privacy laws you mention) and other state entities to avoid using US tech services.

Sure it'd be hypocritical, but when did that stop anyone?

Re: The Criminal N.S.A.

#56
post #37

Here's the thing. If file-sharers have the right to anonymous speech , what does that say about everyone being spied upon by the NSA? http://torrentfreak.com/file-sharers-have-right-to-anonymous... I'm starting to think more and more that beyond this being a US Constitution issue, it's a human rights issue, and we should fight to ban all such spying internationally. Yes, I realize how hard that that may be to achieve…

> file-sharers have the right to anonymous speech

This is an inaccurate distraction in your comment.

Re: The Criminal N.S.A.

#57

The public is not acquiescing in surveillance. It is simply rare for the mainstream media to report on this critically (or at all -- note the lack of front-page coverage of this story in the New York Times), an appalling development given the extension of this surveillance apparatus to targeting journalists. With that in mind, it is worth noting that the two authors of this piece are NOT professional journalists, alt…

[deleted]

Re: The Criminal N.S.A.

#58

The public is not acquiescing in surveillance. It is simply rare for the mainstream media to report on this critically (or at all -- note the lack of front-page coverage of this story in the New York Times), an appalling development given the extension of this surveillance apparatus to targeting journalists. With that in mind, it is worth noting that the two authors of this piece are NOT professional journalists, alt…

I stopped reading after the first sentence.

THE twin revelations that telecom carriers have been secretly giving the National Security Agency information about Americans’ phone calls, and that the N.S.A. has been capturing e-mail and other private communications from Internet companies as part of a secret program called Prism, have not enraged most Americans.

Apparently this op Ed contribution hasn't been pyong attention for the last 20 years (or actually hasn't cared until the latest bandwagon to jump on rolled into town) but all of this in the news has been in place way before Obama and extended by Bush like crazy after 9/11.

Check CALEA signed by Clinton in 94 requiring telecoms to spy on their customers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_Assistance_for_L...

Re: The Criminal N.S.A.

#59

The public is not acquiescing in surveillance. It is simply rare for the mainstream media to report on this critically (or at all -- note the lack of front-page coverage of this story in the New York Times), an appalling development given the extension of this surveillance apparatus to targeting journalists. With that in mind, it is worth noting that the two authors of this piece are NOT professional journalists, alt…

> note the lack of front-page coverage of this story in the New York Times

NYT front page on June 20, 22, 24, 25, 26 -- five out of the past 7 days. Plus a front page mention on June 23. I know you don't mean your comment literally, but I think there's been a lot of coverage. There's some criticism that the stories of late tend to focus more on Snowden, but his part of the story is the only thing that's had material developments in the past week.

http://www.nytimes.com/images/2013/06/26/nytfrontpage/scan.p... (et al)

Re: The Criminal N.S.A.

#60
post #49
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about we popularize encryption, and take the choice out of the hands of corporations and governments?

[deleted]

It does not need to be a 100% solution. If you want to disrupt the NSA effectively gathering information effortlessly then popularizing encryption can go a long way of doing that regardless of the existing methods of getting around it.
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