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Netflix ditches Silverlight with support for HTML5 video in IE11

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Re: Netflix ditches Silverlight with support for HTML5 video in IE11

#101

Post by gsnedders »

tmzt wrote: post #56
jlgreco wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They would have no control over the rest of the stack. If netflix created a linux build of a DRM binary that worked with their service then it would become the tool of choice for everyone that wanted to rip/upload to usenet the latest Netflix exclusive content. Also they frankly just don't care about linux users. If this were something that they were interested in having, they would have had Netflix on Chrome on 'reg…

If an extension to XvMC or the proprietary ATI/Nvidea equivalent supported a protected path for media content, which could theoretically bypass the kernel by sending ciphertext directly to the renderer, then Widevine or another DRM system could be supported on GNU/Linux.

This was the spoken about way of achieving the goal on the HTML WG mailing list, if that is required, on Linux (note Flash doesn't do that currently and many are happy to licence content for it despite that, so this may well never come to fruition).

Re: Netflix ditches Silverlight with support for HTML5 video in IE11

#102

Post by ZitchDog »

lukifer wrote: post #100
gue5t wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't make sense, because you have to have the key to play the video. Cryptography and security practices are the medical science to DRM's snake oil, and I don't really expect this usage will help security at all. A "known key" attack isn't an attack at all, cryptographically speaking. In addition: it doesn't even look like they're meaningfully using "web crypto" APIs, but rather the much-debated proposed DRM…

I only know the basics of crypto, but couldn't the key be hidden and itself encrypted within the machine code for IE, and then authenticated via HTTPS? I would think this is mainly a problem for open-source browsers, which would require closed-source plugins.

You can't hide a key for long. And you can't encrypt a key without another key.

Re: Netflix ditches Silverlight with support for HTML5 video in IE11

#103

Post by surrealize »

thezilch wrote: post #91
wmf wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A DRM-free subscription service would immediately lead to a ripper tool that would download everything in one month, which would immediately lead to Hollywood studio execs pitching hissy fits.

Those responding to shit, pay close attention to my original quip towards dinosaur content-providers and "Hollywood execs" here. What Netflix wants or not is largely irrelevant; I can't say for sure they would ever consider running their service without some sort of DRM or downloading deterrents. It is clear to me they want to provide a more sane service than other offerings, allowing me to watch what I want without…

Content publishers tried to get DRM into broadcast television (the "broadcast flag"). They failed, and now they broadcast everything in the clear. In that case, there was a bunch of push-back against DRM. But Netflix and Microsoft aren't pushing back against web DRM; they're just rolling over and implementing it.

So digital broadcast television started with publishers demanding DRM, and then giving up on it (and realizing that it wasn't actually necessary). The exact same thing happened with music. And it's happening with ebooks too. But for some reason, you think that web video is different? And you advocate giving up on it without any real fight.

Re: Netflix ditches Silverlight with support for HTML5 video in IE11

#104

Post by cdcarter »

weavejester wrote: post #94
giovannibajo1 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they would bother because it's not easy for rippers to get eg HD video rips before the bluray version of the movie is out. So at the very least, it's making rippers' work much easier, and it brings the date when HD content is available on torrent from "whenever bluray is released" to "whenever it is available for streaming", which we are all crossing finger to become "when it is released in theaters".

Whatever gives you that idea? HD rips usually show up a few hours after an episode first airs.

Movies are a much different story.

Re: Netflix ditches Silverlight with support for HTML5 video in IE11

#105

Post by gizmo686 »

lukifer wrote: post #100
gue5t wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't make sense, because you have to have the key to play the video. Cryptography and security practices are the medical science to DRM's snake oil, and I don't really expect this usage will help security at all. A "known key" attack isn't an attack at all, cryptographically speaking. In addition: it doesn't even look like they're meaningfully using "web crypto" APIs, but rather the much-debated proposed DRM…

I only know the basics of crypto, but couldn't the key be hidden and itself encrypted within the machine code for IE, and then authenticated via HTTPS? I would think this is mainly a problem for open-source browsers, which would require closed-source plugins.

The user has access to the machine code for IE.

However, you are onto the right track. One proposed solution to DRM (that I believe was impleneted with DVD and/or blueray) is to establish a chain of trust in the hardware. The idea would be that you send an encrypted signal to the monitor, and the monitor has a tamper resistant decryption chip with its own key.

Obviously, this only gets you so far, as once someone cracks the chip (or acquires the master key through other means, as happened with DVD), then the entire scheme is broken.

Ultimatly the problem is that you need to provide the user with enough information for them to be able to view the decrypted content, while at the same time not let them know the decrypted content. The real question is how difficult/expansive can you make it to bypass. Unfourtantly, in every system I am aware of, once one person figures it out, it become cheap and easy for every else; and coming up with a new crypto-system is a great way to get the academic community to try and break it.

Re: Netflix ditches Silverlight with support for HTML5 video in IE11

#106

Post by lukifer »

ZitchDog wrote: post #102
lukifer wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only know the basics of crypto, but couldn't the key be hidden and itself encrypted within the machine code for IE, and then authenticated via HTTPS? I would think this is mainly a problem for open-source browsers, which would require closed-source plugins.

You can't hide a key for long. And you can't encrypt a key without another key.

But doesn't client-side encryption already function at the OS level? For instance, the keys for FairPlay and the App Store have not been cracked, as far as I know.

Re: Netflix ditches Silverlight with support for HTML5 video in IE11

#107

Post by gizmo686 »

jerf wrote: post #44
mikeryan wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not necessarily saying that Linux will ever be a high priority, but having to only provide a PlayReady Media Extension for a few browsers on Linux is a much more reasonable effort then providing the whole Silverlight or Flash runtime.

Linux will never get a PlayReady Media Extension. Linux users control the kernel of the device. Even if hypothetically TPM technology or similar could be used to play video "securely" nevertheless (with hypothetical future tech), it would still be too great a risk to let it on to such a "compromised" system.

You could delegate decryption to the video-card itself. This would also prevent the attack vector of running a 'secure' system inside of a transparent VM.

Not to mention the fact that Linux has some very smart people, with a history of reverse engineering stuff for compatibility; and breaking any advanced DRM system is an honor onto itself.

Re: Netflix ditches Silverlight with support for HTML5 video in IE11

#108

Post by adamconroy »

As pointed out by many, this is even more proprietary than any plugin. Microsoft are fricken idiots, they are trying to be hip and open standards etc but nobody is going to buy it, at the same time they are annoying everyone who couldn't care less and probably don't even know what a plugin is, on top of disenfranchising legions of developers.

Re: Netflix ditches Silverlight with support for HTML5 video in IE11

#109

Post by knome »

mindstab wrote: post #7

And so in a small part the MSIE team is back to "creating" new "standards" for the web because they were the first on board so the get more input to the final product. I hate to say it (in part because I'm not 100% sold on web DRM, tho netflix on Linux will be nice...) but by being sticks in the mud over the issue Google and Mozilla are now going to be following IE's lead for probably the first time in a while

> tho netflix on Linux will be nice...

What's annoying is that you can run netflix on linux right now[1] via `netflix-desktop`, which combines `firefox`, `silverlight` and a modified copy of `wine` to access their site.

If they switch over to these new plugins and the plugins are IE-specific, we'll be locked out again.

[1] * https://launchpad.net/netflix-desktop * http://www.compholio.com/netflix-desktop/

Re: Netflix ditches Silverlight with support for HTML5 video in IE11

#110

Post by dstorey »

bsg75 wrote: post #2

What does this mean for anything not running IE11?

Netflix already support ChromeOS on Samsung Chrome books using this method. Only that Chrome doesn’t support an end to end solution, as it doesn’t support the Crypto API, so Netflix rolled their own. They also support a different DRM plug-in.

As this involves three different specs, which are all from the W3C, this means that it will work in any browser that implements them, and supports the DRM that Netflix uses.

Microsoft and Google are already on board. I expect Opera will inherit this from Blink/Chromium. As both YouTube and Netflix support this already, I wouldn’t be surprised to see WebKit and Firefox/Gecko implement it eventually.

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