Going Dutch
nytimes.com
Going Dutch
1–10 of 72 posts
Re: Going Dutch
#2A Dutchman replies:
http://www.newmajority.com/ShowScroll.aspx?ID=8a80f624-92a7-...
The NYT article doesn't make any mention of the fact that emigration from the Netherlands in 2004 was the highest since 1954. This makes me wonder if things are really as wonderful there as the article claims, although it does a pretty good job of pointing out the pros and cons.
Re: Going Dutch
#3A Dutchman replies: http://www.newmajority.com/ShowScroll.aspx?ID=8a80f624-92a7-... The NYT article doesn't make any mention of the fact that emigration from the Netherlands in 2004 was the highest since 1954. This makes me wonder if things are really as wonderful there as the article claims, although it does a pretty good job of pointing out the pros and cons.
The article does not mention this fact because it's not true: http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=nl&v=27. The net migration rate merely stopped growing.
Re: Going Dutch
#4A Dutchman replies: http://www.newmajority.com/ShowScroll.aspx?ID=8a80f624-92a7-... The NYT article doesn't make any mention of the fact that emigration from the Netherlands in 2004 was the highest since 1954. This makes me wonder if things are really as wonderful there as the article claims, although it does a pretty good job of pointing out the pros and cons.
The article does not mention this fact because it's not true: http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=nl&v=27 . The net migration rate merely stopped growing.
Thanks for the catch. I've corrected it as per below. My source was (my memory of) a statement in a book that I read a while back. From a 2005 article:
http://www.expatica.com/nl/news/local_news/why-are-they-all-...
"In 2004 almost 50,000 people born in the Netherlands decided to leave and live in a foreign country. Since 1954, the number of emigrants has never been so high. The Dutch economy, with the exception of the early 1980s, has never been so poor since 1954.
The Netherlands is undergoing the longest period of stagnation in two generations, according to the latest statistics from the CPB Netherlands Bureau for Economic Policy Analysis."
Re: Going Dutch
#5A Dutchman replies: http://www.newmajority.com/ShowScroll.aspx?ID=8a80f624-92a7-... The NYT article doesn't make any mention of the fact that emigration from the Netherlands in 2004 was the highest since 1954. This makes me wonder if things are really as wonderful there as the article claims, although it does a pretty good job of pointing out the pros and cons.
The article does not mention this fact because it's not true: http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=nl&v=27 . The net migration rate merely stopped growing.
Even if it was true, would that in the case of NL indicate anything in regards to its taxes-welfare state?
I thought it was a widely held "fact" that the NL is overcrowded and that dutchmen should try to find their lebensraum elsewhere.
Re: Going Dutch
#6This is the sort of thing that people can argue endlessly, and ultimately, unproductively about.
Re: Going Dutch
#7Some of the symbolism is a bit extreme but overall it's a pretty good overview of life in the Netherlands. There is a level of comfort here that I haven't experienced anywhere else however that comfort has both positive and negative consequences. This is the only article I've read that touches on that aspect of life here. And I'm glad he mentioned the lack of anything open 24h a day and rarely past 6 (some grocery stores are open until 10). It's madness!
By the way, if you're interested in the history of the Netherlands, there's a dutch movie coming out later this year about the flood of 1953: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1230194/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sea_flood_of_1953
Re: Going Dutch
#8[deleted]
Re: Going Dutch
#9A Dutchman replies: http://www.newmajority.com/ShowScroll.aspx?ID=8a80f624-92a7-... The NYT article doesn't make any mention of the fact that emigration from the Netherlands in 2004 was the highest since 1954. This makes me wonder if things are really as wonderful there as the article claims, although it does a pretty good job of pointing out the pros and cons.
"Dissident voices are ruled out of order and successfully demonized (Pim Fortuyn), killed (Theo van Gogh) or face such severe threats to their security that they are forced to emigrate, as in the case of Somali-born politician Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who violated the Dutch norms of “consensus” by insisting on publicly discussing female genital mutilation; honor violence; honor killings; and forced marriages."
The author conflates many issues here. Most people disagreed with Fortuyn because he was a right-wing populist who managed to form a fringe party that consisted of sorry losers. The guy himself was intelligent, witty and utterly narcissistic. He was like a character in Oscar Wilde's plays who had a bon mot for everything and solutions for nothing. Not the kind of person who should have political power.
Re: Going Dutch
#10This is the sort of thing that people can argue endlessly, and ultimately, unproductively about.
It's true that these arguments do seem to go on forever and very rarely does someone change their viewpoint based on these discussions. But debates on the value of incentives, the role of government and charity, and efficient resource allocation are important topics citizens would be wise not to avoid.