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Bitcoin Black Market Competition Heats Up

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Re: Bitcoin Black Market Competition Heats Up

#21
post #3

The sooner these "hard" drug sellers will be busted - the better for everyone, including Bitcoin future.

People should be allowed to put whatever they want in their body. The war on drugs is a seismic failure that does nothing but propagate the prison industrial complex. The most popular drugs on these sites are marijuana and psychedelics such as LSD and psilocybin mushrooms that are by no means "hard" drugs. Making things illegal, especially drugs, doesn't make them go away. Your just pushing them underground where the…

I realize it's a popular sentiment here, but it's based off of a philosophy that isn't universal and that reasonable people can disagree on. When you consider that some drugs are physically addictive and that some people are more susceptible to the addiction, there's a societal incentive to protect people from the opportunity to become addicted. I get that to some people that is a "nanny state", but I also think that the belief that "every man for himself" scales to a population size of n is overly simplistic.

Re: Bitcoin Black Market Competition Heats Up

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People should be allowed to put whatever they want in their body. The war on drugs is a seismic failure that does nothing but propagate the prison industrial complex. The most popular drugs on these sites are marijuana and psychedelics such as LSD and psilocybin mushrooms that are by no means "hard" drugs. Making things illegal, especially drugs, doesn't make them go away. Your just pushing them underground where the…

I realize it's a popular sentiment here, but it's based off of a philosophy that isn't universal and that reasonable people can disagree on. When you consider that some drugs are physically addictive and that some people are more susceptible to the addiction, there's a societal incentive to protect people from the opportunity to become addicted. I get that to some people that is a "nanny state", but I also think that…

Why do you equate physical force and prohibition to helping people? Why not start a private fund/charity, which, for example, helps addicts beat their habits? Or maybe distribute accurate information about drugs and drugs-related programs?

Coercion isn't the only way to help people. And absence of coercion isn't "every man for himself"

Re: Bitcoin Black Market Competition Heats Up

#24
post #9

The attitude of the Atlantis CEO seems much different from the founder of SilkRoad, Dread Pirate Roberts. Whereas the Atlantis CEO seems very into this business for the money and fame, DPR seems more interested in the ideological standpoint of it all (libertarian ideals and all that jazz). Quotation from Dread Pirate Roberts: All that being said, my primary motivation is not personal wealth, but making a difference.…

Atlantis CEO also claimed that their service is technically much more sophisticated than SilkRoad. His/Her answer when asked what Atlantis has that SR doesn't:

“To put it bluntly, a well written codebase and server setup. SR claims to have suffered from ‘DDoS’ attacks, which is very unlikely due to the way Tor hidden services are designed. It’s far more likely to me and technical gurus I’ve consulted that it was a result of poor or uncoping infrastructure. Most likely database related. Ironically we still received all the blame for the supposed ‘attacks’.”

http://weirderweb.com/2013/06/13/atlantis-wasnt-built-in-a-d...

Re: Bitcoin Black Market Competition Heats Up

#26

It seems like this is a boom for law enforcement. One of the fundamental aspects of bitcoin is that every transaction is recorded and publicly view able. In order to anonomize your currency you bassicly need to go through a mixing service, which takes bitcoins from a pool of users, and redistributes them back to the same users, but at new accounts, so it would be 'impossible' for someone to follow the money using onl…

I am wondering if mixing services might be illegal. As far as I know there are laws prohibiting attempts to conceal or obscure the source of money.

Since almost all methods of acquiring bitcoin lead back to a bank account, it would be trivial to trace anybody putting money into the mixing service and potentially prosecute them under anti-laundering laws.

Paying cash for bitcoin (i.e. localbitcoin) is not traceable in this manner, but if you have large amounts of untraceable cash then you have probably already successfully laundered money, and though bitcoin is a more convenient store of value it would not be the tool that enabled it.

So I agree, seems regulators should be fine with Bitcoin.

Re: Bitcoin Black Market Competition Heats Up

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I realize it's a popular sentiment here, but it's based off of a philosophy that isn't universal and that reasonable people can disagree on. When you consider that some drugs are physically addictive and that some people are more susceptible to the addiction, there's a societal incentive to protect people from the opportunity to become addicted. I get that to some people that is a "nanny state", but I also think that…

Why do you equate physical force and prohibition to helping people? Why not start a private fund/charity, which, for example, helps addicts beat their habits? Or maybe distribute accurate information about drugs and drugs-related programs? Coercion isn't the only way to help people. And absence of coercion isn't "every man for himself"

It's clear that drugs are destroying people and communities. Take crack as an example. Do you really think making it freely available, or providing free soup kitchens and mecical aid, would alleviate the misery and destruction it causes to people and communities?

Sometimes people need to be protected against themselves, this is particularly true for the less educated (which tends to coincide with the underpriviledged), because they will seriously fuck up their lives (which in turn affects their dependants and communities) unless provided guidance and, yes, certain restrictions.

Re: Bitcoin Black Market Competition Heats Up

#28
post #15

I kept hearing about how Bitcoin was so often used for "money laundering" and illegal activities. Are these sites what all the fuss is about?

In general, money laundering is much a bigger problem than p2p drug sales. Money laundering is anything that turns illegally acquired cash into seemingly legitimate funds. People do this because they are worried about the physical security aspects of having that much cash on hand, or would like to make a purchase where cash won't be accepted (eg house, car, stock). I think real money laundering using bitcoin would be…

I think it also includes anything that intentionally obscures the provenance of money even if it's never used illegally.

Re: Bitcoin Black Market Competition Heats Up

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People should be allowed to put whatever they want in their body. The war on drugs is a seismic failure that does nothing but propagate the prison industrial complex. The most popular drugs on these sites are marijuana and psychedelics such as LSD and psilocybin mushrooms that are by no means "hard" drugs. Making things illegal, especially drugs, doesn't make them go away. Your just pushing them underground where the…

I realize it's a popular sentiment here, but it's based off of a philosophy that isn't universal and that reasonable people can disagree on. When you consider that some drugs are physically addictive and that some people are more susceptible to the addiction, there's a societal incentive to protect people from the opportunity to become addicted. I get that to some people that is a "nanny state", but I also think that…

There are plenty of things that are physically addictive and still legal: caffeine, alcohol, cigarettes and a cornucopia of various pharmaceuticals (both prescription and over the counter). Also, there are an abundance of illegal drugs that aren't physically addictive such as LSD [1], psilocybin mushrooms [2], DMT [3], mescaline [4], or MDMA [5]. So that's a pretty bad argument. I've not once said I have an "every man for himself" belief system. From your language, it seems that your may be assuming I'm a libertarian. I'm not. Not that it matters if I was because there's a solid case to be made against prohibition. Honestly that doesn't even make any sense in this context. We should give people unbiased information and let them make their own decisions. Society has no place telling me or anyone else what they can put in their body. Just like we do a wide variety of other things we consume and make use of daily. Should we take acetaminophen (Tylenol) off the market because 500 people per year overdose and die from it? [13] How about caffeine? That kills people too and is physically addictive. Should we go back to prohibiting alcohol, which kills 75,000 people per year in the United States alone? [14] How about tobacco which kills 5 million people per year? [15] What about all the research chemicals that no one knows the side effects of because they haven't been studied like the more popular drugs? They get banned and all you have to do is change a couple molecules and it's a new drug. heroin deaths are a pimple compared to alcohol deaths, a couple thousand per year most. And how much of that is because of a dealer who gave bad, impure product to a customer that required them to shoot up a ton to get a high? Who knows. I'm going to preemptively stop you. Don't you dare say that if heroin was legal that significantly more people would die from it. No one wakes up one day and says, "Gee I think I'd like to buy some China white heroin." If something like Naloxone, which is a drug used in hospitals as a counter to heroin and other opiate related overdoes was allowed to be sold everywhere I'm sure you would see that number go down, as well. [18]

The drug war is a colossal failure that has done nothing but contributed to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people (most likely millions worldwide, but I don't have stat for that.) and ripped families a part. In Mexico alone between 2006 and 2012 drug related violence hit 60,00 deaths. That's in Mexico alone in only a few years. [6] as well as make a select few richer. Statistics show that it disproportionately effects those in the African-American community. [7] You obviously haven't seen your father ripped from your arms for possessing an ounce of weed, a sheet of acid, or a couple grams of cocaine. History is a major indicator that the war on drugs is not going to get better. It's only going to get worse. Legalize and regulate drugs and you will see crime go down across the board. Not to mention that you can then control the quality of drugs. When you can produce heroin in a grade a chemical facility and not some guys shed you can make a drastically healthier product.

You're making the assertion that making drugs illegal makes them go away. Simple put: that's false. People who are physically addicted to drugs such as heroin can't seek out help as it currently lies because they are treated as criminals if they relapse and are sent to prison.

Portugal decriminalized a wide array of drugs including heroin, LSD, marijuana, and cocaine and they saw:

- More people opted to seek out treatment for their drug problems [8]

- Reduction in HIV among drug users by 17% [9]

- Drug use among adolescents declined [10]

- Decreased value of street drugs [11]

For more see See Drug Decriminalization in Portugal by Glenn Greenwald [6]

Further more I want to touch on the fact that the way scheduling is handled in the United States, several important drugs are kept from being studied by scientists in universities. That is absolutely ridiculous. Drugs like MDMA are going to pave the way in treating things like depression and PTSD. [16] LSD has been known to help alcoholics see the light and give it up. [17]

Marinol, a synthetic form of THC that costs thousands of percents more than the price of marijuana, is allowed to be prescribed and sold, but marijuana is illegal. That's messed up.

You're way of thinking is dangerous and is irrational and your certainty not being reasonable.

[1] http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_basics.shtml

[2] http://brown.edu/Student_Services/Health_Services/Health_Edu...

[3] http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/dmt_basics.shtml

[4] http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mescaline/mescaline_basics.s...

[5] http://www.dartmouth.edu/~healthed/groups/dapa/otherdrugs/md...

[6] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-10681249

[7] http://newjimcrow.com/

[8] http://www.beckleyfoundation.org/bib/doc/bf/2007_Caitlin_211...

[9] http://www.idt.pt/PT/IDT/Documents/Ponto_Focal/2009_National...

[10] http://www.beckleyfoundation.org/bib/doc/bf/2010_Caitlin_211...

[11] http://www.beckleyfoundation.org/bib/doc/bf/2010_Caitlin_211...

[12] http://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/greenwald_...

[13] http://www.fda.gov/drugs/drugsafety/ucm239821.htm

[14] http://www.nbcnews.com/id/6089353/ns/health-addictions/t/alc...

[15] http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fast_...

[16] http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/dec/27/mdma-ecstasy-p...

[17] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17297714

[18] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naloxone

Edit: Some formatting and thanks to klearvue for bringing a prevalent spelling error to my attention. Sometimes I get ahead of myself.

Re: Bitcoin Black Market Competition Heats Up

#30
post #20

10BTC says this is a DEA sting.

As long as you encrypt all your communications, you have nothing to fear, especially not as a seller. Doing it right makes you completely anonymous. Only if you're a buyer, there comes a moment when you have to give a postal address to a seller and give up your anonimity. If the seller turns out to be law enforcement, this might cause a problem. On the other hand, why would law enforcement go after the buyers? That doesn't solve anything, it's the sellers they want.

Even if the service is completely run by DEA/FBI/etc, taking the right precautions can help you stay anonymous. That's what's so beautiful about Tor, Bitcoin and PGP :)

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