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iOS 7: Catch me if you can

allenpike.com

41–50 of 131 posts

Re: iOS 7: Catch me if you can

#41

"Try copying this assholes" Seriously? I can't get over there are iOS fanboys out there still with their heads so far in the sand. Along with more characterizations of web development that are a decade out of date... sigh. (And anyone who doesn't understand what I mean should watch the Shadow DOM and Polymers presentations from this year's Google IO. They really need to put the Sandbox on a public url for a quick imp…

> I can't get over there are iOS fanboys out there still > with their heads so far in the sand. Those iOS fanboys are just knowledgeable enough. Why don't you spend some time and educate yourself on a couple of things. First, where the first usage of the cornerstones of modern web tech appeared in the wild: I mean , CSS transitions and animations. You may be surprised. Second, learn a bit what native SDKs offer. Once…

Ah, yes. Assume I'm ignorant about the technology you claim is superior (the exact same thing happened the last time I tried to point out that the web has advanced a bit in the last 10 years). I didn't even try to make any claim about the web being better than native, but for your own knowledge, I have experience with native SDKs from win32, to cocoa, to android and iOS.

>Trying to portray web stack as superior is laughable

In what regard? Surely not in ease of development? Ease of learning? Ease/portability/availability of tools? Portability of the end app itself? Available developer pool? Open source code to look at and use? I can't imagine a way that any native platform beats the web in any of those categories.

Or just in terms of making a fancy animation and having reusable UI elements? You're probably right, but oh wait, if only you'd investigated Shadow DOM and Polymers like I recommended you'd see that web technologies are rapidly advancing on that front as well.

Re: iOS 7: Catch me if you can

#42
post #5

This needs a dose of cynicism I think. The success of the iPhone in 2007 really wasn't driven by hardware capability (except arguably the capacitative touch screen). Even then, other phones had faster processors, more memory, and equivalent GPUs. Apple won because it invented new usage models, not because it drove its designers to "show off what's possible in" 2007. The stuff this is talking about is just eye candy.…

>This needs a dose of cynicism I think. The success of the iPhone in 2007 really wasn't driven by hardware capability (except arguably the capacitative touch screen). Even then, other phones had faster processors, more memory, and equivalent GPUs.

No, they really didn't. Any citation?

Re: iOS 7: Catch me if you can

#43
Anything that pushed native over web in my mind is a step backwards. Let's think about the challenges that come along with native ios apps:

- Less accessible. Objective C is a strange, low-level, difficult-to-learn, niche language used only for mac development.

- More work. See above explanation of Objective C. You need an IDE to even be remotely efficient, an IDE that Apple also controls.

- More work to port anywhere else. Popular app on iOS and want it on android? Time to rebuild the entire thing from scratch in another language!

- More expensive. Want to sell your app? Better give Apple their 30% cut, in addition to the yearly fee in order to have an app of any sort.

The common theme of these points being that Apple wants control over everything, and has control over everything. But that's a point for a separate rant. My point here is that the web has none of these drawbacks. The web is a uniform interface across devices, the languages are fairly simple and widely used, and the environment is open.

Apple could still take control and sell web apps, but they seem to be very purposely not doing that, and pushing native as hard as they can while occasionally implementing a buggy web app feature here or there. It just makes me sad. We don't need parallax when we move our phones around. We don't need blur effects everywhere. We need an easy, clear, open, and accessible way to develop apps for mobile devices.

Re: iOS 7: Catch me if you can

#44
post #4
post #3

iOS 7 was clearly designed to show off what’s possible in 2013. I absolutely agree with this point. And, while I disagree with the post's main thesis — I believe the changes were in no way directed towards the web — it's a pretty entertaining take on the updates, OP.

I'd rephrase that as ios7 was clearly made to catch up with android 4 and holo, but maybe that's just me. there's nothing revolutionary in ios7 shown so far. that said, I can't wait for Apple to sue Android over the things they just stole from them.

>I'd rephrase that as ios7 was clearly made to catch up with android 4 and holo, but maybe that's just me.

Catch up? Actually it was more of a "let's go another 100 miles ahead, Android seems to be catching up finally to were we've been the last 3 years".

Re: iOS 7: Catch me if you can

#45
post #5

This needs a dose of cynicism I think. The success of the iPhone in 2007 really wasn't driven by hardware capability (except arguably the capacitative touch screen). Even then, other phones had faster processors, more memory, and equivalent GPUs. Apple won because it invented new usage models, not because it drove its designers to "show off what's possible in" 2007. The stuff this is talking about is just eye candy.…

I think you meant 'performance' instead of 'capability'.

As far as 'performance', Apple has never been one to put performance numbers up as a selling point. Macs have never been marketed as an X (M|G)hz machine with Y (M|G)B RAM. Those were details Steve felt should be abstracted away from the user. So, I'd agree with you that the success of iPhone has never really been driven by 'hardware performance', as that is the popular habit of Apple.

That said, it remains that iPhone is still a fairly powerful smartphone, as they come, and the author seems to be arguing (rightfully so, IMO) that Apple is cashing in on that fact through leveraging that for the aesthetic design of their software.

Arguably, all mobile OSs have to be built with some amount of mindfulness to the performance of the lowest common denominator device. Android could be pretty low, whereas Apple's lowest common denominator device for iOS 7 still has moderately powerful specs.

Re: iOS 7: Catch me if you can

#46
post #39

"Try copying this assholes" Seriously? I can't get over there are iOS fanboys out there still with their heads so far in the sand. Along with more characterizations of web development that are a decade out of date... sigh. (And anyone who doesn't understand what I mean should watch the Shadow DOM and Polymers presentations from this year's Google IO. They really need to put the Sandbox on a public url for a quick imp…

Due to the degree that each of the major mobile players "cross-pollinates" or "copies" these days, why are we even still talking about who is copying who? Who cares? Looking at these new iOS demos, I see a lot of things that were first done elsewhere. But to most people (outside of our ivory tower), that doesn't matter, and it shouldn't. But Apple shouldn't be faulted for some of these "borrowed" elements in iOS 7. G…

Right? I feel like for the first 4-5 years it was whining that Android stole everything from Apple (arguable) and then after that it was whining about iOS leaching Android features.

But now... who cares? Or has the effort to care? Look at both of the latest platform releases. It's new APIs. It's new services. It's new ways of giving them more data to improve their services. They're working on UI and UX issues and small features.

We've reached such feature parity - I honestly believe a choice between iOS/Android/WP8/RIM is going to give you a good, fairly polished experience. (The biggest differentiator left isn't bullshit gradients and transparencies; if anything it's personal preferences or App availability [I need my Google Voice!])

Re: iOS 7: Catch me if you can

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't get over there are iOS fanboys out there still > with their heads so far in the sand. Those iOS fanboys are just knowledgeable enough. Why don't you spend some time and educate yourself on a couple of things. First, where the first usage of the cornerstones of modern web tech appeared in the wild: I mean , CSS transitions and animations. You may be surprised. Second, learn a bit what native SDKs offer. Once…

Ah, yes. Assume I'm ignorant about the technology you claim is superior (the exact same thing happened the last time I tried to point out that the web has advanced a bit in the last 10 years). I didn't even try to make any claim about the web being better than native, but for your own knowledge, I have experience with native SDKs from win32, to cocoa, to android and iOS. >Trying to portray web stack as superior is la…

> Surely not in ease of development?

Nope. Building a complex application in JS+HTML+CSS is still an enormously painful undertaking.

> Ease of learning?

Also nope. Complex applications are still complex.

> Ease/portability/availability of tools?

Compared to the development tools for other platforms (IDEs, profilers, etc), the web tools are far, far, far more limited.

> Portability of the end app itself?

Portability is a cost-cutting measure, but never a user-appreciated feature. The web would need to stand alone as a first-tier platform for this to be a net gain; as it is, web-only experience is subpar.

> Available developer pool?

Quality engineers capable of producing first-class applications for your users still cost a lot and are rare on the ground.

> Open source code to look at and use?

This is not even remotely unique to the web.

> You're probably right, but oh wait, if only you'd investigated Shadow DOM and Polymers like I recommended you'd see that web technologies are rapidly advancing on that front as well.

Catching up to 1990s application architecture is not really a cause to celebrate. The technology stack that drives desktop and mobile devices is massive. We don't build custom interfaces directly on top of OpenGL and call it a day.

Re: iOS 7: Catch me if you can

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In time. I think the battery life vs. computing power tradeoff took a turn in 2007 because batteries were finally robust enough to handle a bright screen for a reasonable amount of time. Ideally I would like a device which has a battery which, when bought, will last the lifetime of the product.

One that recharges itself continuously via radioactive decay? I wonder if, regulatory challenges aside, a radioactive decay trickle charge could be enough of a trickle charge to meaningfully extend daily battery life...

None of what goes into modern battery is notably radioactive, unless your'e suggesting a battery that's similar to a RTG?

Re: iOS 7: Catch me if you can

#49
post #5

This needs a dose of cynicism I think. The success of the iPhone in 2007 really wasn't driven by hardware capability (except arguably the capacitative touch screen). Even then, other phones had faster processors, more memory, and equivalent GPUs. Apple won because it invented new usage models, not because it drove its designers to "show off what's possible in" 2007. The stuff this is talking about is just eye candy.…

It was a bit of both. The original iPhone wasn't a hardware revolution, but it was an OS revolution. It was the first time anyone put an OS on a phone that had a blazing fast graphics layer. Touchscreen phones existed before then, but because of platform performance, was always of the "poke, wait, stuff magically appears, poke, wait, stuff magically appears..." model. Apple didn't just invent new usage models, they i…

My impression was that the iPhone was fully thought out in advance so that everything would work together. Take away a major piece, and the whole thing stops making sense. It needed a touch screen so that it didn't need a keyboard. There couldn't be a keyboard, because it took space away from the display. Replacing a keyboard with a touch screen was radical at that time, and it had to work really well. People would need visual feedback to be able to interact with it effectively. The visual feedback couldn't lag, so that required fast graphics. And so on...

Re: iOS 7: Catch me if you can

#50
post #43

Anything that pushed native over web in my mind is a step backwards. Let's think about the challenges that come along with native ios apps: - Less accessible. Objective C is a strange, low-level, difficult-to-learn, niche language used only for mac development. - More work. See above explanation of Objective C. You need an IDE to even be remotely efficient, an IDE that Apple also controls. - More work to port anywher…

Ah, you forget the main Advantage (to Apple)

- native means control.

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