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Show HN – Apptimize: A/B testing for native Android, iOS apps

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Re: Show HN – Apptimize: A/B testing for native Android, iOS apps

#41

Post by pbsdp »

jaegerpicker wrote: post #37
huhtenberg wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As an app developer, this data allows me to measurably improve my apps. I don't give a flying f#ck about that, sorry. This is my device and I don't like my device connecting god knows where at a whim. As I said, if you were to tell your app users upfront that you will be tracking their usage, anonymous or not, and gave them an option to opt out, very few would not opt out. This is the exact same inherent need for p…

I think that frankly you are roundly wrong. Most users just don't care that they are anonymously being tracked or monitored. Most users what good, ease to use, reliable apps that do something interesting. If it phones home to google most people just don't care. The NSA scandal was mostly met with a loud "meh?" from most people. The media is pushing it as a story but really only techies give a shit about it. I'm not s…

> Most users just don't care that they are anonymously being tracked or monitored.

Most users don't know, because you didn't tell them.

> Anon analytics make better apps.

Highly debatable.

Re: Show HN – Apptimize: A/B testing for native Android, iOS apps

#42

Post by pbsdp »

nickpresta wrote: post #33
nileshtrivedi wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he is using your app, it implies that he somewhat trusts you. I think it's Google that he doesn't trust. Using an app shouldn't require trusting a third party with personal behavior data.

You're more than likely using the Android Marketplace, with a Google account, with credit card details associated. What don't you trust? In general, apps that "phone home" suck, but let's not lump GA or crash reporting (like BugSense, etc) in that same group.

Asking permission to record a crash is very different than silently sending user-identifiable data to Google (or elsewhere).

Re: Show HN – Apptimize: A/B testing for native Android, iOS apps

#43

Post by jasonlotito »

gailees wrote: post #24

Do people actually do A/B testing on iOS apps? I feel like the two-week development cycle really hinders your ability to conduct valuable A/B tests with your users in time to actually make any change.

Take a look at http://useartisan.com/

Basically, it removes the 2-week development cycle, and you can essentially make changes in real time. I've seen it demo'ed, and it's much more impressive than the website makes it out to be.

Re: Show HN – Apptimize: A/B testing for native Android, iOS apps

#44

Post by pbsdp »

Rezo wrote: post #22
huhtenberg wrote: post #18

I've got some karma points to burn, so here comes something. A list of your clients would be nice to see. So that I'd know to never install any of their apps. I hate apps that phone home. I hate apps that phone to some random analytics companies even more. I don't like companies that enable, entice and profit from this sort of behavior, a behavior that every single user would opt out from if they were asked upfront .…

How does the anonymous gathering of statistics harm you? As an app developer, this data allows me to measurably improve my apps. I have several free (no ads either) apps in the Android market, and even in the most trivial of apps I will include Google Analytics to receive crash reports, see what screens are most popular (so I can improve my apps where it matters most), where the app is being used (for some reason one…

The data as sent to Google (or any other analytics system) contains more than enough personally identifiable meta-data as to serve as a hugely useful database for the mining information on specific individuals.

Even just an IP address and device identifier is very useful metadata for assembling sweeping user profiles.

This creates a centralized data trove of hugely valuable data (why else do you think services collect it for free?) that is useful to both commercial and government interests.

This is why personal privacy matters, and why silently 'phoning home' without first getting explicit user permission is wrong.

Re: Show HN – Apptimize: A/B testing for native Android, iOS apps

#45

Post by pbsdp »

gailees wrote: post #26
huhtenberg wrote: post #18

I've got some karma points to burn, so here comes something. A list of your clients would be nice to see. So that I'd know to never install any of their apps. I hate apps that phone home. I hate apps that phone to some random analytics companies even more. I don't like companies that enable, entice and profit from this sort of behavior, a behavior that every single user would opt out from if they were asked upfront .…

Seriously? How do you feel about A/B testing on websites?

Sending a request to a server is explicitly and inescapably part of requesting a web page; users explicitly grant permission for that request to be made obvious to you simply by making the request in the first place.

On the other hand, there's still an open question of what you do with that request data. Sending it to Google without permission is wrong, as it contains a slew of personally identifiable data that allows Google to build a massive profile of a specific user's behavior both across the internet, and in the real world.

Re: Show HN – Apptimize: A/B testing for native Android, iOS apps

#46

Post by smtddr »

pbsdp wrote: post #41
jaegerpicker wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that frankly you are roundly wrong. Most users just don't care that they are anonymously being tracked or monitored. Most users what good, ease to use, reliable apps that do something interesting. If it phones home to google most people just don't care. The NSA scandal was mostly met with a loud "meh?" from most people. The media is pushing it as a story but really only techies give a shit about it. I'm not s…

> Most users just don't care that they are anonymously being tracked or monitored. Most users don't know, because you didn't tell them. > Anon analytics make better apps. Highly debatable.

>> Anon analytics make better apps.

> Highly debatable.

How can that be debatable? If you see 45% of crashes happen on the photo-upload screen, isn't that some kind of clue where to look? I really don't think anyone can argue that analytics are not helpful in improving app quality. Please, if anyone can even play devil's advocate on that... please do. But you better make a throwaway account 'cuz I suspect you'll be buried into oblivion and ghost-banned.

Re: Show HN – Apptimize: A/B testing for native Android, iOS apps

#47

Post by [deleted] »

pbsdp wrote: post #42
nickpresta wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're more than likely using the Android Marketplace, with a Google account, with credit card details associated. What don't you trust? In general, apps that "phone home" suck, but let's not lump GA or crash reporting (like BugSense, etc) in that same group.

Asking permission to record a crash is very different than silently sending user-identifiable data to Google (or elsewhere).

[deleted]

Re: Show HN – Apptimize: A/B testing for native Android, iOS apps

#48

Post by pbsdp »

smtddr wrote: post #46
pbsdp wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most users just don't care that they are anonymously being tracked or monitored. Most users don't know, because you didn't tell them. > Anon analytics make better apps. Highly debatable.

>> Anon analytics make better apps. > Highly debatable. How can that be debatable? If you see 45% of crashes happen on the photo-upload screen, isn't that some kind of clue where to look? I really don't think anyone can argue that analytics are not helpful in improving app quality. Please, if anyone can even play devil's advocate on that... please do. But you better make a throwaway account 'cuz I suspect you'll be b…

The crash report backtrace can be gathered on-demand, after asking the user's permission.

On-demand user-approved crash reporting is not usually what people mean by phone-home 'analytics'.

> But you better make a throwaway account 'cuz I suspect you'll be buried into oblivion and ghost-banned.

That's pretty rude.

Re: Show HN – Apptimize: A/B testing for native Android, iOS apps

#49

Post by SupremumLimit »

jasonlotito wrote: post #43
gailees wrote: post #24

Do people actually do A/B testing on iOS apps? I feel like the two-week development cycle really hinders your ability to conduct valuable A/B tests with your users in time to actually make any change.

Take a look at http://useartisan.com/ Basically, it removes the 2-week development cycle, and you can essentially make changes in real time. I've seen it demo'ed, and it's much more impressive than the website makes it out to be.

It sounds interesting, but how do they get around the app store approval process?

Re: Show HN – Apptimize: A/B testing for native Android, iOS apps

#50

Post by thecodemonkey »

gailees wrote: post #24

Do people actually do A/B testing on iOS apps? I feel like the two-week development cycle really hinders your ability to conduct valuable A/B tests with your users in time to actually make any change.

We faced the same problem, and built an A/B Testing Framework at a Hackathon this month that allows you to just drop in a line of code and run all the experiments through a web interface without app updates.

The framework is not quite ready to ship yet, but we built a fully working proof of concept, and are looking to complete it and put it out there.

You can read more and watch a video demo at the website: http://fliptest.io

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