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German City Set To Make Linux A Norm For Citizens

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Re: German City Set To Make Linux A Norm For Citizens

#71

Wait... That's what I am paying my taxes for? That's where my money goes? I am NOT against Linux being more widely used. And I like the idea that the city uses Linux to save money & more efficient. But pushing citizens to use Linux is NOT government business

> But pushing citizens to use Linux is NOT government business Why not? The goverment standardizes everything else, from screws to seat belts to yogurts, why not stop the crazy update-planned-obsolescence cycle pushed by commercial entities and agree on a "standard UI" for normal people? The amount of unnecessary changes in UIs has become unbearably crazy. And since those changes are forced from all sides, there is n…

> Why not?

That is exactly the WRONG question. Government power & influence needs to be restricted to the bare minimum necessary - for the security(!) of its citizen.

We can all clearly see what extensive government power leads to. Just wait for the HN front page to be flooded again with reports about Snowden/PRISM.

There are certain tasks that should be put in the hands of the government (ensuring the rule of law, national defense, making sure free elections happen) and others that have a good ROI (education / healthcare). But beyond that, it is just more power to the wrong institution.

Going completely 1984 here: Today they distribute Linux, tomorrow they distribute Linux with a Rootkit pre-installed.

Regarding UI changes: Boy... I hate those. 20 years of Moore's law have left us with incredibly powerful computers and we manage to waste all that raw power, those billions of CPU cycles per second on fancy UI. You are completely right - from a technical, educated standpoint.

BUT, that's not how the human brain works. For your average consumer the rule of thumb is "if it looks fresh, it is fresh". Plain & simple. They don't "get" that NTFS now supports transactions and that atomicity in file operations is like the holy grail and just completely awesome - but "Oh boy! That start button with lights up when I move the mouse over it!!!!"

Tell you what: Microsoft has that shit figured out - at least with every other version ;-)

Re: German City Set To Make Linux A Norm For Citizens

#72
post #46
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think at this point the apps themselves have a bigger impact than the OS. Websites can easily take 50-100 MB of RAM these days, each . Open a few of those, and you can already slow down your PC with low RAM. All of these "low-end" operating systems should have at least 1 GB of RAM as the bare minimum, and something with a more modern OS like Ubuntu or Windows 7 should use at least 2 GB of RAM, otherwise you have th…

What sorts of websites are we talking about here? I understand that some websites have to transfer a couple of megabytes to be displayed (though most of that is media content anyway) but how does that end up occupying 100MB of RAM? That's roughly an order of magnitude more than I'd like a website to take, except for when we're talking streaming media obviously.

Just check your processes tab in Windows. Some sites even go over 100 MB.

Re: German City Set To Make Linux A Norm For Citizens

#73
post #61
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What sorts of websites are we talking about here? I understand that some websites have to transfer a couple of megabytes to be displayed (though most of that is media content anyway) but how does that end up occupying 100MB of RAM? That's roughly an order of magnitude more than I'd like a website to take, except for when we're talking streaming media obviously.

I use a web IM client, it can easily consume hundreds upon hundreds of megabytes if left open for a few days, and that is just to send small snippets of text back and forth! About:Memory in Firefox right now, with nothing other than this reply box open, shows JS using 67.29MB and well over 100MB of memory used for other purposes. (Likely this is left over from tabs I have closed)

About:Memory in Firefox right now, with nothing other than this reply box open, shows JS using 67.29MB and well over 100MB of memory used for other purposes.

(Likely this is left over from tabs I have closed)

I think it's just general overhead, since I have similar figures when starting FF fresh with no tabs.

If you look at "window-objects" under explicit allocations, you can see the memory for individual pages; the page of your parent comment weighs 2.2 MB for me.

But that's without history... when you click links, it will keep the previous pages cached, and I think that is what can really eat a lot of memory real quick. But I would also hope that memory gets released without much of a fuss? I don't know that, but if the RAM is made available when system resources get low, I'd say cache away, since unused RAM just eats electricity for nothing :P

Re: German City Set To Make Linux A Norm For Citizens

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perfectly normal is an observation of frequency of occurrence, and one I won't dispute. "hiddenfeatures" was complaining that this was (to paraphrase with words from your observation) "perfectly normal", which he found odd in that his tax money was promoting this, when he didn't see this as a government function. "keithpeter" referenced that in Europe/UK (and I will confirm that various jurisdictions in the US of A d…

> "For me anytime I see even small amounts of money spent I compare it to what I've been taxed for the year and calculate how much of my money went to support the program." Does your analysis include any estimate of corresponding benefits , specifically reduction in costs down the line?

Yes, I calculate benefits when I spend my money. When the government spends my money I ask why, if its because the government will then spend less of my money on something else, I ask why is the government doing the other thing to begin with.

I'm pretty sure blood won't run in the streets and mass murderers won't roam with impunity if we don't install Linux on our old boxes.

I'm all for the government being limited to fewer things, so the political will has less to argue about, and we can all get back to talking about the weather and arguing about religion.

Re: German City Set To Make Linux A Norm For Citizens

#75
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you get the proprietary drivers for that Nvidia card? They can't legally be included in the distro itself, you have to go get them, which is a shame.

The situation described by GP is so ridiculous that it's unlikely to be true, which is why I wouldn't recommend anyone to waste their time trying to solve the mentioned "problems". I mean, really, why would anyone switch from Windows to Ubuntu on a gaming machine ? Just think about it for a sec. (Videos not loading or USB not working are issues the OEM are supposed to handle. The fact that someone like GP can't tell…

(I don't really care about the specific model of the board, because there are dozens to chose from. But I checked my email, its an Evga GTX650 1Gb DDR5. Oh, I avoided ATI because of past problems with Linux.)

Why Linux? Because coding (web stuff) on Windows sucks. Expandrive hasn't been working that well for me, makes explorer sluggish, etc.

Of course I didn't replace Windows - Ubuntu suggests you to install it along Windows (that part works really well these days).

See, the other day someone posted on HN that their Unity experience was bad because they had used a slow computer; I bought that idea and tried on the PC this time. (Then I went to XFCE, as usual. Which also failed on me, as I mentioned about the USB drive problem).

I should have videotaped myself installing and using Ubuntu - its just dozens of tiny UX mistakes that make me mad.

The problem is that everything has to work really well for a "power user" to use a computer happily. I can't believe someone that says the experience/aesthetics of Ubuntu matches that of OSX.

I absolutely don't want anyone to help me solve the problems (they were examples, there were dozens)[1] which you consider imaginary - my algorithm regarding Linux on the Desktop is to come back every 6 months and try it again).

(BTW, VLC works very well, I meant web based videos.)

[1] Small example: When I clicked "Install" on Synaptic, the button state didn't change until several seconds had passed, then the box asking for the root password pops up. By that time, I had already clicked it again several times.

Re: German City Set To Make Linux A Norm For Citizens

#76
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite sincerely, I just tried switching to Ubuntu 13.04 (from Win7) on my gaming machine (4GB Ram, some Nvidia card that I can play BF3 very well), and it doesn't "Run" like Windows either. Chrome is slow to start, videos don't load properly, ejecting the pendrive fails...

Did you get the proprietary drivers for that Nvidia card? They can't legally be included in the distro itself, you have to go get them, which is a shame.

Í'm not sure I checked that checkbox - thanks for the reminder.

Re: German City Set To Make Linux A Norm For Citizens

#77
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What sorts of websites are we talking about here? I understand that some websites have to transfer a couple of megabytes to be displayed (though most of that is media content anyway) but how does that end up occupying 100MB of RAM? That's roughly an order of magnitude more than I'd like a website to take, except for when we're talking streaming media obviously.

Looking at Chrome's Task Manager: my Gmail tab weighs in at 255 MB. Facebook is #2, at 168 MB. All that client-side JS gets pretty heavy. Interestingly, #3 is the home page of an old blogspot.com blog. It's mostly just text and a few inline images, and it still somehow manages to occupy 132 MB of RAM.

I'm guessing this is either because of chrome's sandboxed tabs or the amount of RAM you have on your computer (or a combination of both).

Firefox is lighter on the RAM usage these days especially with more tabs because of the sandboxing.

Re: German City Set To Make Linux A Norm For Citizens

#78
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you get the proprietary drivers for that Nvidia card? They can't legally be included in the distro itself, you have to go get them, which is a shame.

The situation described by GP is so ridiculous that it's unlikely to be true, which is why I wouldn't recommend anyone to waste their time trying to solve the mentioned "problems". I mean, really, why would anyone switch from Windows to Ubuntu on a gaming machine ? Just think about it for a sec. (Videos not loading or USB not working are issues the OEM are supposed to handle. The fact that someone like GP can't tell…

Not just me:

https://twitter.com/Vryohpah/status/349126411845517312

Actually, opening this very tweet shows me squares instead of characters in some places. (It migh be "my fault" since I installed something called Infinality to improve font rendering. Oh well.)

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