Advice for ambitious 19 year olds • Hacker News Board

Re: Advice for ambitious 19 year olds

#121

Post by sbuccini » Tue, Jun 25, 2013, 5:49 AM UTC

I faced this dilemna last year. I chose college, and it was t he best decision of my life. Yes, it's expensive. Yes, I could learn how to code by sheer willpower and practice. But the people I've met and the things I have learned, not just academic lessons but lessons about life as well, have already made the experience worth it.

My advice to people in my situation is to really, really think about your decision. It's sexy to drop out these days, but it's not always the right thing to do

Re: Advice for ambitious 19 year olds

#122

Post by argonaut » Tue, Jun 25, 2013, 5:50 AM UTC

kayoone wrote: post #8

intrazoo wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The reason I suggested college graduates not start startups immediately was that I felt most would fail. And they will. But ambitious programmers are better off doing their own thing and failing than going to work at a big company. Certainly they'll learn more. They might even be better off financially. A lot of people in their early twenties get into debt, because their expenses grow even faster than the salary tha…

Sounds strange to me. I put alot of my own money and some of my parents into my startup, got seed financing and failed 2 years later. I am now 30 and still have to pay back my parents and havent saved a dime in my life while being a pretty decent software developer (not in the US). I learned a ton, but financially it has been a disaster. So a Big-Co job ist still not too bad when starting out imo, you probably wont l…

Well, the mistake you made (and that a 19-year old starting a company should avoid) was getting into debt in the first place, even if it was with your family.

Re: Advice for ambitious 19 year olds

#123

Post by argonaut » Tue, Jun 25, 2013, 5:52 AM UTC

acuozzo wrote: post #87

intrazoo wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The reason I suggested college graduates not start startups immediately was that I felt most would fail. And they will. But ambitious programmers are better off doing their own thing and failing than going to work at a big company. Certainly they'll learn more. They might even be better off financially. A lot of people in their early twenties get into debt, because their expenses grow even faster than the salary tha…

> But ambitious programmers are better off doing their own thing and failing than going to work at a big company. I wish I could have told this to my wife when we were 22! "I'm sorry, babe! You need to pay the bills and support me while I work to get my startup off-the-ground! You'll see! We'll be raking in the money in no-time. Our 130K of student loan debt will be paid off before you can say `boo'."

If that is the constraint, then don't go to school.

If you absolutely have to go to school, student loans are the responsibility of the person who takes them out, and have nothing to do with the blog's point. Get financial aid, get a merit scholarship, go to community college - there are alternatives within your control.

Re: Advice for ambitious 19 year olds

#124

Post by argonaut » Tue, Jun 25, 2013, 5:53 AM UTC

throwaway10001 wrote: post #75

I just watched someone turn down one of these breakout companies because Microsoft offered him $30k per year more in salary—that was a terrible decision. He will not build interesting things and may not work with smart people. Interesting things....like making people click on ads? Microsoft products are used by billions of people worldwide and by virtually every Fortune () company. And then we have Microsoft Research…

Okay. MSFT Research is great. It would be unreasonable to offer that as a viable alternative for even a highly gifted and ambitious (but not genius-level) 19 year old.

Re: Advice for ambitious 19 year olds

#125

Post by sliverstorm » Tue, Jun 25, 2013, 5:56 AM UTC

FakeSamAltman wrote: post #120

ruswick wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> risk-seeking, ambitious, 19-year old The article isn't explicitly directed at "risk-seekers," but merely at ambitious people. It's incorrect to conflate the two. Ambition can just easily manifest itself as a desire to seek a large salary, climb the corporate hierarchy, and seek a nice lifestyle. As a member of the cohort at which this piece was directed, I don't know why everyone assumes that we want to expose ours…

Three kids, a safe job and an Audi is not ambitious . And it certainly isn't netting you a YC partnership at 25.

Ah, but what if it was

three kids, a safe job, two Ferraris, and the ear of Larry Ellison?

or how about

Climb the ladder, eventually transition to politics, and become a Senator on a technical platform?

ruswick's point is that ambition is not the sole province of the startup crowd.

Re: Advice for ambitious 19 year olds

#126

Post by sliverstorm » Tue, Jun 25, 2013, 6:06 AM UTC

ruswick wrote: post #111

kayoone wrote: post #14

"Incidentally, don’t let salary be a factor. I just watched someone turn down one of these breakout companies because Microsoft offered him $30k per year more in salary—that was a terrible decision. He will not build interesting things and may not work with smart people." That quote drips so much of elitism its disgusting. MS still has many brilliant engineers and is building alot of really complex stuff, probably mo…

Besides merely being an offhanded dismissal of Microsoft employees, it operates under the presumption 1) salary is a factor that can be disregarded by people and 2) high salary is negatively correlated with exposure to smart people. In the case of the former, the author is clearly myopic. One needs money to live, and the majority of technology companies reside in cities in which the cost of living is substantially hi…

I'm not sure that it's fiscally tenable to exit school with tens of thousands in debt while being subjected to a massively inflated cost of living, and go right into taking a below-average salary at a startup.

What kind of plebeian can't afford to exit school with $500/mo student loans and $2,000/mo rental payments? ;)

More importantly, according to Hacker News, the average salary for a software developer who is at least capable of coding himself out of a wet paper bag, is $150k, so below-average means an "acceptable" $120k, at least. Right?

Re: Advice for ambitious 19 year olds

#127

Post by sliverstorm » Tue, Jun 25, 2013, 6:10 AM UTC

Selfcommit wrote: post #36

avolcano wrote: post #9

I'm 19, and just started as a software engineer at a startup in NYC. It's been absolutely incredible - I never thought I'd be here a year ago. I'll admit that my situation isn't universal - luckily, I could get my foot in the door with many startups by being in the last batch of Hacker School - but if you, like me, hate academia and want to get to work, don't let your age stop you. Sure, there's companies that care a…

Please understand that my intent here is not to begrudge you in any way - I think it's wonderful that you're working as an SE at such a young age - but.. I'm 10 years older than you. I code in the evenings, I spend my morning commute listing to any computer science online course I can find... I have over 5 years experience as a Systems Admin... I've interviewed with a number of big companies and startups but I don't…

I have a few friends who have experienced absolutely meteoric rises at their respective companies. These individuals are good, but not to my knowledge exceptional. In less than two years, they go from new college grad to the very top of the company.

You are a clever guy- what does that say to you about the company they work at, and by extension them?

It doesn't take much to look like a master circuit designer when you are the only person at the company with any training in circuit design. For example, during college at an "internship" of sorts, the two years of education I had at the time pretty much made me the resident expert on circuit design.

Re: Advice for ambitious 19 year olds

#128

Post by pg » Tue, Jun 25, 2013, 6:13 AM UTC

Sam was just telling me how much he regretted looking at this thread.

"Oh, you should never read Hacker News comments about anything you write," I told him.

Whereupon it immediately struck me how strange and sad it was to be saying this, as the person who started HN.

Seriously, some of the comments on this thread are HN at its very worst: bitter, willful misinterpretations of what Sam is saying.

Re: Advice for ambitious 19 year olds

#129

Post by eshvk » Tue, Jun 25, 2013, 6:14 AM UTC

Interesting. I see two types of assumptions (in the comments):

1. MSR does cool research projects, any one joins has a chance of working on those. A large percentage of the people who work there are research PhDs. Similarly working at Google doesn't necessarily mean you get closer to flying balloons or whatever.

2. Money is bad, learning/glory is good. Simplistic. Spouted by people who can't pay you well. My response: I am curious, I will learn anywhere. Fuck You, Pay Me.

Re: Advice for ambitious 19 year olds

#130

Post by eshvk » Tue, Jun 25, 2013, 6:21 AM UTC

beat wrote: post #64

enraged_camel wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. $30,000 more per year is nothing to balk at. It is a serious amount of money. In addition, working for Microsoft is fantastic for a resume. The person in question probably improved his future career prospects by an order of magnitude by taking the job. And let's not even forget the fantastic benefits that Microsoft offers its employees that most startups cannot afford to.

"Future career prospects"... well, that depends. What does he want that future career to be? More work as a peon in other giant corporations, climbing the ladder to middle management? That sort of thing can lead to looking back twenty years, thinking, "Why on Earth did I waste all that time?" Believe me, I know. I often quote Mr. Morden from Babylon 5 , asking "What do you want?" Most people don't have the nerve to e…

> That sort of thing can lead to looking back twenty years, thinking, "Why on Earth did I waste all that time?

"waste" is subjective. Twenty years of your life working 100 hours a week in startups? Twenty years of your life traveling the world with a low paying job?

A particular path being appealing to you doesn't necessarily make other paths bad.

> Most people don't have the nerve to even look what they want in the eye.

Sure. Imagine the man who doesn't accept that all he wants is a stable job which will let him spend more time with his family. Instead, he works at a tiny company day in and day out, dreaming of the big payoff (with paid dinners).