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Sacrificing everything for my dog. How I became a programmer

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Re: Sacrificing everything for my dog. How I became a programmer

#41

Post by Afforess »

Spearchucker wrote: post #36
Afforess wrote: post #31

I like the story, but I feel it's important to mention that the authors stated opinion on Karma is terrifying . Karma is essentially the worst sort of belief, in that superficially it seems to reward good behavior and punish bad behavior. This appeals to a lot of people because of its clear "carrot/stick" mentality and overall simplicity. This is the "Just-World" hypothesis. In reality, this kind of thinking means th…

Philosophical perspectives on karma notwithstanding, I'm not sure I agree. You can ignore the less fortunate whether you believe in Karma, god or other imaginary friend. Second, at times it should be your obligation to be a jerk to others. Not saying always, but where not doing so puts you into a worse place than you would otherwise be, you should. To explain (followed by an extreme example): consider the most import…

So Karma is right some of the time is your defense? A broken clock is right two times a day. I still wouldn't advocate replacing your functional clock with a broken one. Similarly, I don't advocate Karma because it's an extremely flawed philosophy.

Re: Sacrificing everything for my dog. How I became a programmer

#42

Post by sudo_robin »

Afforess wrote: post #31

I like the story, but I feel it's important to mention that the authors stated opinion on Karma is terrifying . Karma is essentially the worst sort of belief, in that superficially it seems to reward good behavior and punish bad behavior. This appeals to a lot of people because of its clear "carrot/stick" mentality and overall simplicity. This is the "Just-World" hypothesis. In reality, this kind of thinking means th…

> In reality, this kind of thinking means that if you believe in Karma, you can ignore less-fortunates because clearly they screwed up their lives on their own.

Disagree - If some one is "less-fortunate" and you are in the capacity to help them, you accumulate the negative kind of karma by ignoring them.

> Conversely, you can get away with being a jerk to people, because they probably deserved it anyway.

Maybe. But do not forget the implications on you for being a jerk.

> It is a self-reinforcing bias of the worst sort.

Depends on how you take it.

Re: Sacrificing everything for my dog. How I became a programmer

#43

Post by yardie »

VladRussian2 wrote: post #13

> If you’ve ever owned a dog, you know just how intelligent they actually are (especially larger breeds) yes, some larger breeds rate higher on obedience scale, and we, humans, equate that to the intelligence in animals. There is another bias also is that large breeds are more frequently working breeds, thus a lot of specialized effort is invested into training them, and thus more of the obedience results achieved.

Couldn't obedience be another form of intelligence?

Re: Sacrificing everything for my dog. How I became a programmer

#44

Post by eshvk »

Heliosmaster wrote: post #39
seldo wrote: post #10

Remember kids, if you work hard, sacrifice, and have parents with a spare house in Tahoe they can lend you rent-free indefinitely, you too can make it as a programmer.

I can't understand the general hostility toward getting (financial) help from your parents or living with them until you are financially independent, even after 18/25/30. I know I am biased as an italian (and pretty much adhere to the true stereotype) but I can't find anything wrong from getting help from the people that brought you in this world and which probably love you more than anyone else on the planet (and th…

> I can't understand the general hostility toward getting (financial) help from your parents or living with them until you are financially independent, even after 18/25/30.

Personally, I never had that support structure and had to figure out my shit the hard way; that doesn't mean I was never helped by people, it simply means that I had to work harder to get help. This means that I find it mildly annoying when those hoops are skipped easily by people who can run to mommy and daddy when things go bad.

> I know I am biased as an italian

There is a cultural element to it. I am of Indian origin; those people are big on the family support structure thing. I think it gets way too codependent. On the other hand, America has both kinds: There are enough people who run to daddy to handle their credit card bills. There also is this Randian image of a hero who arises magically from the dust and conquers everything.

Re: Sacrificing everything for my dog. How I became a programmer

#45

Post by flyinRyan »

eshvk wrote: post #37
flyinRyan wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention arguably the worst aspect of Karma belief: that the successful deserve it. This kind of belief is what causes so many people in America to vote squarely against their own interests for their entire lives.

The problem with a flowery eastern concept misinterpreted and adopted in the west is that the original meaning gets distorted. Karma is merely a way of understanding "cause and effect". > This kind of belief is what causes so many people in America to vote squarely against their own interests for their entire lives. That is patronizing. There is a wide spectrum of reasons why one might say vote for lower/higher taxes…

>That is patronizing. There is a wide spectrum of reasons why one might say vote for lower/higher taxes between "they worked hard, so they deserve it" and "fuck you, I want mine".

Since I never clarified what I meant and you came up with such a specific notion, it would appear you're projecting some defensiveness here.

But I will go ahead and clarify my position: The fact of the matter is, the US is a combative system. For it to work properly, each side has to take the extremes of their own position so the result ends up in the middle.

The rich don't need the poor or middle class to vote as a rich person, they can literally pay people to do that for them if they wish. A poor person should vote for issues that help them specifically and directly. Forget trickle-down even if you're ignorant enough to believe in it.

A perfect example is right-to-work states. Within the last year or so I read a story about a husband in (I believe it was) Kentucky who was sent out on a neglected platform to do some work, it collapsed and he died. The family was simply out a husband, father and provider. They couldn't even sue because the way the laws worked in that state meant the company would have literally had to try and murder the man for the family to be able to sue over the indecent.

I bet if you talked to most people in that state, they would be for this law because they don't want people suing McDonald's over hot coffee, for example. But why would they care? They're closer to the burned woman than they are McDonald's, voting their interests would mean they vote for the ability to sue McDonald's if they accidentally burn themselves.

Of course ditto-heads will scream "yea but if we did that it would ruin the whole country!" and indeed if the poor and middle class always got their way it would. But that wouldn't happen. Voting their own interests would simply pull the final result closer to the middle. That is, it would present ridiculous situations like a family not even being able to sue a company for a true case of near-criminal negligence and wrongful death.

Re: Sacrificing everything for my dog. How I became a programmer

#46

Post by eshvk »

akiselev wrote: post #40
eshvk wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with a flowery eastern concept misinterpreted and adopted in the west is that the original meaning gets distorted. Karma is merely a way of understanding "cause and effect". > This kind of belief is what causes so many people in America to vote squarely against their own interests for their entire lives. That is patronizing. There is a wide spectrum of reasons why one might say vote for lower/higher taxes…

I don't know if my American history books were particularly biased (although I had a great and seemingly unbiased one in AP US History), but expressing aspiration through voting has been a long common thread through US history. For example, slaves were expensive so only a small small minority owned them. The vast majority supported it because (or at least some of the primary reasons cited by my history books) it a) e…

Yeah, I have heard of that narrative; Steinbeck did say “Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”. I still find it patronizing; it is reductive. The model assumes a caricature of a poor man who votes for slavery in the hope of owning a slave one day. Maybe, he just doesn't like black people? Maybe, he worries that his precarious job will be lost by new competition? Maybe, Colonel George from the plantation threatened him if he votes for abolition?

Re: Sacrificing everything for my dog. How I became a programmer

#47

Post by Afforess »

sudo_robin wrote: post #42
Afforess wrote: post #31

I like the story, but I feel it's important to mention that the authors stated opinion on Karma is terrifying . Karma is essentially the worst sort of belief, in that superficially it seems to reward good behavior and punish bad behavior. This appeals to a lot of people because of its clear "carrot/stick" mentality and overall simplicity. This is the "Just-World" hypothesis. In reality, this kind of thinking means th…

> In reality, this kind of thinking means that if you believe in Karma, you can ignore less-fortunates because clearly they screwed up their lives on their own. Disagree - If some one is "less-fortunate" and you are in the capacity to help them, you accumulate the negative kind of karma by ignoring them. > Conversely, you can get away with being a jerk to people, because they probably deserved it anyway. Maybe. But d…

Your interpretation of Karma may be correct, but I was responding to the author's views on Karma. I urge you to go read it again, his are the under-informed, dangerous sort.

Re: Sacrificing everything for my dog. How I became a programmer

#48

Post by flyinRyan »

eshvk wrote: post #46
akiselev wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if my American history books were particularly biased (although I had a great and seemingly unbiased one in AP US History), but expressing aspiration through voting has been a long common thread through US history. For example, slaves were expensive so only a small small minority owned them. The vast majority supported it because (or at least some of the primary reasons cited by my history books) it a) e…

Yeah, I have heard of that narrative; Steinbeck did say “Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”. I still find it patronizing; it is reductive. The model assumes a caricature of a poor man who votes for slavery in the hope of owning a slave one day. Maybe, he just doesn't like black people? Maybe, he worries tha…

Interesting that not a single one of your proposed counter-options is any nicer than the one you dislike.

Re: Sacrificing everything for my dog. How I became a programmer

#49

Post by tfb »

I honestly don't know where I'd be without my dog. They really are amazing animals. It's been a rough few years and just knowing that every time I get up from the computer that he's ready to make me smile and go wherever I go, whenever I go... it's a perfect reminder of why I work as hard as I do.

Even though I do walk him multiple times each day, I feel bad for sitting at this machine working 70+ hours a week trying to build a business. It's taking longer than expected and it's gotten to where I can't tell if he's just getting old or possibly depressed from lack of stimulation, so I tell him (probably more so myself ;) that we're going to move on soon and have all kinds of fun. That's the main thing that keeps me going. I just hope that by the time I do get back on my feet, there's still time to give him the life he deserves.

Re: Sacrificing everything for my dog. How I became a programmer

#50

Post by eshvk »

flyinRyan wrote: post #45
eshvk wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with a flowery eastern concept misinterpreted and adopted in the west is that the original meaning gets distorted. Karma is merely a way of understanding "cause and effect". > This kind of belief is what causes so many people in America to vote squarely against their own interests for their entire lives. That is patronizing. There is a wide spectrum of reasons why one might say vote for lower/higher taxes…

>That is patronizing. There is a wide spectrum of reasons why one might say vote for lower/higher taxes between "they worked hard, so they deserve it" and "fuck you, I want mine". Since I never clarified what I meant and you came up with such a specific notion, it would appear you're projecting some defensiveness here. But I will go ahead and clarify my position: The fact of the matter is, the US is a combative syste…

> Since I never clarified what I meant and you came up with such a specific notion, it would appear you're projecting some defensiveness here.

Correct, I was taking up an example, which is why I used the phrase "one might say". I didn't advocate a specific position (higher or lower taxes). I am completely detached; I don't participate in the political system in America (neither do I plan to ever) so I simply don't care.

I am not in disagreement with your thesis. The problem that bugs me is this presumption that the people are not cognizant of what is good for them. Maybe, the people do something for a reason which is of interest to them (but not the reason that someone else thinks is right for them). E.g. maybe, the people who sue McDonalds don't want their neighbor becoming rich while they are poor. This of course is not limited to the poor; this is a human thing. I would argue that it is not in Warren Buffett's self interest to vote for higher taxes; then again that is my opinion and is not necessarily the same as his. If you examined your decisions over a certain period of time, you will find that the reasons you do something are not necessarily in accordance with what society (or $person whom you think is smarter than you) does them for.

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