Petition to pardon Edward Snowden reaches 100,000 signatures • Hacker News Board

Re: Petition to pardon Edward Snowden reaches 100,000 signatures

#111

Post by jivatmanx » Sat, Jun 22, 2013, 6:03 PM UTC

Xanza wrote: post #90

People sometimes forget that although espionage is indeed a crime, Snowden did not release these classified documents to an enemy of the state, but rather the American People. Our founding father, Benjamin Franklin also committed the act of espionage in 1772 when he exposed and printed letters from Thomas Hutchinson, the royal governor of Massachusetts, detailing information about the revocation of civil liberties of…

Most of his works were written anonymously using a fairly ridiculous number of different Pseudonyms including Silence Dogood, Poor Richard, ect. What did he have to hide? Might as well have been a terrorist.

Re: Petition to pardon Edward Snowden reaches 100,000 signatures

#112

Post by cinquemb » Sat, Jun 22, 2013, 6:06 PM UTC

devillain wrote: post #97

kimlelly wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"people are not apathetic but scared to sign" That's exactly what this surveillance is doing: killing free speech by intimidation is killing democracy.

Or maybe not everyone agrees with you. There's been a lot of discussion about the 'means', but not much about the 'ends'. The 'ends' is the same as giving nuclear secrets to Iran or North Korea.

So are you saying the public is now equated to being the enemy of the state?

Re: Petition to pardon Edward Snowden reaches 100,000 signatures

#113

Post by orblivion » Sat, Jun 22, 2013, 6:08 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #108

melling wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100,000 isn't a significant number of people. You are living in a HN echo chamber. I'm not sure most Americans care. I'd love to know exactly what the NSA is doing. There needs to be some sort of oversight, of course, but they certainly have a job to do. I recently heard former President Clinton talk about it and he was somewhat convincing that there are certain restrictions. At any rate, aren't we venturing into pol…

> I'm not sure most Americans care. And of those that do care, a majority feel that he committed treason and needs to be brought to justice. http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/17/cnn-poll-maj...

Don't forget that's still 44% of people who care.

Re: Petition to pardon Edward Snowden reaches 100,000 signatures

#114

Post by fixxer » Sat, Jun 22, 2013, 6:17 PM UTC

I wish someone would compile a list of all petitions which have reached critical mass and map the administration's responses. Would love to see exactly how "effective" this little charade has been since inception.

Re: Petition to pardon Edward Snowden reaches 100,000 signatures

#115

Post by vidarh » Sat, Jun 22, 2013, 6:17 PM UTC

throwaway10001 wrote: post #13

gamegoblin wrote: post #5

Is there any evidence to support that these petitions have done anything that wouldn't have already been done? They seem like a red herring.

On the other hand: Considering it takes just a minute to sign one, it's not that much of a downside. Unless NSA is adding the signatories to a special database :-) At worst, it shows that a lot of people are listening and agreeing with Snowden regarding NSA's snooping

We are probably all in a special database already.

Re: Petition to pardon Edward Snowden reaches 100,000 signatures

#116

Post by mpyne » Sat, Jun 22, 2013, 6:33 PM UTC

nsns wrote: post #106

mpyne wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but theoretically no one would hear you anyways unless they got a warrant. ;)

At least it will be stored for posterity.

Well that is the worst death, isn't it? No one ever even knows what you had said or thought once you pass away, you're just a bunch of cremains in the sea...

Re: Petition to pardon Edward Snowden reaches 100,000 signatures

#117

Post by mpyne » Sat, Jun 22, 2013, 6:46 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #108

melling wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100,000 isn't a significant number of people. You are living in a HN echo chamber. I'm not sure most Americans care. I'd love to know exactly what the NSA is doing. There needs to be some sort of oversight, of course, but they certainly have a job to do. I recently heard former President Clinton talk about it and he was somewhat convincing that there are certain restrictions. At any rate, aren't we venturing into pol…

> I'm not sure most Americans care. And of those that do care, a majority feel that he committed treason and needs to be brought to justice. http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/17/cnn-poll-maj...

That's one reason I feel Snowden has hurt his cause by digging in for so much.

Another leak or two (especially about China, who most Americans feel are one step away from being the next U.S.S.R. anyways) and Obama, DNI, Congress, and basically everyone will be able to smooth the whole thing over by painting it with the traitor brush.

I really think Snowden has tried to bite off more than he can chew. At first I believed him that he wanted a debate about how the NSA was being used and how dangerous it could be in the wrong hands. Now I think he really wants to gut the whole thing entirely.

But Americans don't want that, they want an agency whose job it is to protect COMSEC, break others' COMSEC and especially to detect and root out terror cells and other anti-U.S. crime before it reaches our shores. The more Snowden aligns his goals with the destruction of the NSA and CIA the more I think he will get people to turn on him completely.

Don't get me wrong; I want that utopia where no one commits crime, we don't need money, everyone's interested are 100% aligned and we just explore the galaxy as peaceful peoples. But if we ever achieve that it would be 1000 times more remarkable than the Sistine Chapel. And you can bet your ass they wouldn't have completed the Sistine Chapel had they torn down all that ugly scaffolding ⅓rd of the way through.

Re: Petition to pardon Edward Snowden reaches 100,000 signatures

#118

Post by cpleppert » Sat, Jun 22, 2013, 7:15 PM UTC

mpyne wrote: post #117

jedberg wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure most Americans care. And of those that do care, a majority feel that he committed treason and needs to be brought to justice. http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/17/cnn-poll-maj...

That's one reason I feel Snowden has hurt his cause by digging in for so much. Another leak or two ( especially about China, who most Americans feel are one step away from being the next U.S.S.R. anyways ) and Obama, DNI, Congress, and basically everyone will be able to smooth the whole thing over by painting it with the traitor brush. I really think Snowden has tried to bite off more than he can chew. At first I bel…

What is hurting his cause is a) making this about him and continuing to talk so we don't have to address the issues and b) releasing a lot of information that doesn't have to do with domestic intelligence (china, g8 spying etc) distracting people even more and turning the public against himc) refusing to talk about what technical capabilities the NSA has and framing the conversation, instead; we see releases of information (PRISM) that are immediately followed by a rush to figure out the actual capabilities of the program, this confuses the public and muddles the waters even more

Snowden should have released the slide and then explained exactly what is wrong with the program. Instead, he did a document dump and followed that up by giving a reveal all interview that shifts the focus from the NSA onto him and his motivations. Snowden still hasn't addressed what he technically knows about PRISM.

He also claimed in his interview he could get access to the presidents email. If he thought that was a big issue he should have gone into detail about it for reporters(the target list, how he could do it as a network administrator etc.) and supported his charge. Instead, it is a one off statement in the context of a long interview where he essentially lays out a political reasoning for why he has done what he did. Snowden still hasn't addressed any of the issues of concern about the NSA and the (lack of)oversight exercised over the agency and its programs.

He had a perfect opportunity to put his concerns before the public and I feel he blew it.

Re: Petition to pardon Edward Snowden reaches 100,000 signatures

#119

Post by Nrsolis » Sat, Jun 22, 2013, 7:28 PM UTC

overgard wrote: post #96

Nrsolis wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This petition wont change anything. We have REAL petitions every 2/4/6 years. It's called an election. You want change, that's how you get it.

How will candidates know what platform to offer if we don't tell them what matters to us? If you wait till election season it's too late, they'll be terrified of changing their positions and being a "flip flopper" or a "chameleon". Government is like a giant cruiser, you can't wait till the last minute to change its direction if there's an iceberg ahead, you have to start steering early.

Well, just as an example, I wrote a letter to my particular Senators and Representatives. I talked about my support for them during the past election and pointed to my contributions to their campaign.

I also made a point to make my voice an individualized one that connected my particular concern with a specific issue. I made my opinion personally known to their staff (the people who REALLY read the letters) and tried to educate them about my specific concerns.

So, yeah, I participate in the process by being educated about the issues, educating my elected representatives about the issues, and then highlighting that my continued support for them as an elected representative depends on my determination of how good of a job they are doing at just that.

That's why I'm poo-poo'ing this petition stuff. It's too general, too diffuse, not aimed at a particular politician with real influence, and ultimately going to be a wasted effort. It'll be ignored.

That's where Alexis Ohanian and his group have really done good work. They made a point of getting people to connect directly with their representatives and make it clear where the populace stood. THAT is how stuff gets done.

Slacktivism doesn't get you anywhere since it requires nothing that involves any real EFFORT. Letter writing and phone calling does. Working on campaigns does. Visiting representatives and senators does. Clicking a button does NOT.

Re: Petition to pardon Edward Snowden reaches 100,000 signatures

#120

Post by serf » Sat, Jun 22, 2013, 8:31 PM UTC

mkr-hn wrote: post #81

ashleyblackmore wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obama promised a lot of things (and didn't act upon those promises)!

One-line posts rarely contribute anything. This is an off-topic jab with no support. Even examples and support for each would not make this post appropriate since this submission is about the petition, not the progress Obama has made on his promises.

and you're doing such a good job of policing the rest of the thread , too!

The petition site was implemented by Obama's cabinet. It was made as a way to make it seem as if his cabinet was more technologically savyy than others(along with "THE FIRST PRESIDENT WITH A SMARTPHONE!"), and allowed for people to think that the platform would increase transparency in governance.

Obama's cabinet decides how to respond to petitions. I think the parent of your reply, although simple in its' phrasing, is pertinent to the discussion at hand.

Ones' history does play out in the judgment that people make, and the fact that the President has broken OTHER promises is probably good reason to suspect his intentions in the future (such as the promise of a real reply@100k)