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How to know when someone is in trouble in the water

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Re: How to know when someone is in trouble in the water

#101

Post by gmrple »

tomsaffell wrote: post #85
kaoD wrote: post #18

I can confirm the article. Almost drowned once in a river: I let myself go with the current and, once I tried swimming back, realized I accidentally went into strong currents. I tried swimming harder, but eventually got tired and sunk. Despite my friends being about 20/30 meters away from me, they didn't realize I was drowning. I couldn't scream for help nor do anything but trying to stick my head out and breathe. I…

I can offer some advice on swift-water river safety. 1. avoid swimming in moving water unless you know it and everything downstream of it very well 2. if you're boating (canoe, tube, etc) on swift moving water always wear a personal flotation device. no exceptions.(a) 3. if you find yourself in moving water, swim lateral to the flow - never upstream 4. the safest orientation of your body is lying on your back, feet d…

Try searching for corkscrew stroke, here's a kid trying it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVLTXKGE7TE

Re: How to know when someone is in trouble in the water

#102

Post by giardini »

mikeryan wrote: post #20
ender7 wrote: post #6

Beware: it is very dangerous to attempt to rescue a full-grown person who is drowning. A person who is drowning has temporarily lost their mind and will happily drown their would-be rescuer in an attempt to stay above the water. Approach a drowning person from behind and hold them above the water by their armpits.

Approach a drowning person from behind and hold them above the water by their armpits Unless you're a trained lifeguard this is poor advice. As stated above you don't want to get within touching/grabbing distance of a drowning person. Get some sort of intermediary between you and them, a stick, rope, shirt, pants whatever. Something that you can drop if you are at risk. To the point below about their instincts of not…

Red Cross lifesaving taught me a similar technique: approach the drowner from behind and underwater. You go under the water and feel your way up from his legs to the back of his thorax staying in contact. When you get to the surface you cross an arm over one shoulder and under the other and pull the drowner backward into a prone position face up. Surprisingly, once you've got a hold on someone in the water its easy to stay behind them no matter how they move.

I never gave much thought to the effect this might have in open water if the drowner did not see you approaching - suddenly something underwater is grabbing him and controlling his movement - Jaws!8-))

Re: How to know when someone is in trouble in the water

#103

Post by japhyr »

I first read this article right around the time my son was born. I soon realized this is a really good mindset for supervising young children as well. If your kid is playing out of sight and you don't hear them for a while, go find them and see what they are doing.

"Listening for silence" is a really good skill to learn.

Re: How to know when someone is in trouble in the water

#104

Post by venus »

jholman wrote: post #50
antoko wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right - I'm making assumptions when imagining the situations described in my head and jumping to unfair conclusions about your point. When I imagine a person in the water trying to help it seems obvious that if you're next to them in the water they will clamber on to you and do whatever they can to keep their mouth out of the water to breathe. When I image holding some object out for them to grab it seems the…

Yeah, though it's not even about forcing them to be aware of it. Like you quoted from the article, "cannot voluntarily control their arm movements" . So the question is, what's the Override Software doing with their arms? It's climbing a ladder, it's scrambling up a vine, it's hauling the body onto a boulder. If there's no ladder/vine/boulder, it's a shitty strategy, and they'll drown pretty soon. If there's a rescue…

As a reasonably strong swimmer with no life saving experience - giving or receiving - this conversation is pretty fascinating, especially the casual nature experienced rescuers are saying things such as

> they're not people right now

This strikes me as an incredibly interesting concept. I wonder what other situations arise semi-frequently where participants temporarily abandon their people-ness? Has this notion been legally tested? If in a state of non-people-ness I drown my rescuer yet then survive, have I committed murder?

It's this kind of random tangent into conversations where knowledgeable people frankly discuss things I had never even imagined that I love about HN (and, to a lesser extent, reddit). FFS, I have a swimming pool downstairs. This conversation has made me realise I have no idea how to save someone I see drowning in it - if I can even identify they are drowning. I'm glad I'm reading it.

Re: How to know when someone is in trouble in the water

#105

Post by jstanley »

mikeash wrote: post #30
clarkmoody wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would need a much more comprehensive overview process to eliminate misleading information from movies, even if it were limited to life-threatening misinformation! One instance I can think of is MRI magnets. Often, a medical drama will cut to someone pushing a button and the magnet coming on. In reality, the magnets are always on and bringing metal objects within range can have dire consequences. The whole movie H…

Banning the portrayal of drivers looking at their passengers while talking to them would probably save more lives than banning inaccurate portrayals of drowning.

I don't know, I think looking at passengers while talking is something you do once and then realise that it is stupid.

I did it once, because it seemed natural to look at the person I was talking to, but I immediately felt endangered and have never done it since.

Whereas with the inaccurate portrayal of drowning response, by the time you've realised that what you're doing is wrong somebody is dead.

Re: How to know when someone is in trouble in the water

#106

Post by Dove »

b0rsuk wrote: post #13

"""How did this captain know—from 50 feet away—what the father couldn’t recognize from just 10? Drowning is not the violent, splashing call for help that most people expect. The captain was trained to recognize drowning by experts and years of experience. The father, on the other hand, had learned what drowning looks like by watching television. (...) Drowning is almost always a deceptively quiet event.""" I think th…

It's not just drowning. There's actually a whole category[1] on TV Tropes for things portrayed in dangerously misleading ways. The misleading portrayals of heart attacks and first aid in general are some of the things that worry me the most.

[1] (Warning! TV Tropes is the most addictive website I know of. Proceed only if you know how to handle it and/or have nowhere to be for several hours.) http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TelevisionIsTryin...

Re: How to know when someone is in trouble in the water

#107

Post by sneak »

b0rsuk wrote: post #13

"""How did this captain know—from 50 feet away—what the father couldn’t recognize from just 10? Drowning is not the violent, splashing call for help that most people expect. The captain was trained to recognize drowning by experts and years of experience. The father, on the other hand, had learned what drowning looks like by watching television. (...) Drowning is almost always a deceptively quiet event.""" I think th…

Fingers resting on triggers when not shooting, then, too.

"I shot Marvin in the face!"

Re: How to know when someone is in trouble in the water

#108

Post by shabble »

mcclung wrote: post #34
mikeryan wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Approach a drowning person from behind and hold them above the water by their armpits Unless you're a trained lifeguard this is poor advice. As stated above you don't want to get within touching/grabbing distance of a drowning person. Get some sort of intermediary between you and them, a stick, rope, shirt, pants whatever. Something that you can drop if you are at risk. To the point below about their instincts of not…

I had a lady next to me start to drown and grab me in a pool when I was getting my diving certification. Despite having a supply of air, wetsuit, fins and buoyancy control device on, she got that drowning sensation when her respirator came out. Once she had someone to hold onto, sanity was restored but I totally got why drowning people are dangerous from then on.

The biggest issue I had during initial training was the mask leak/loss/purge drill. From what I recall, it's a side-effect of the Diving Reflex[1] that cold water on the face (and nose especially) makes it quite difficult to keep breathing, even when you have a perfectly functional regulator in the mouth. It gets better with practice, but it's terrifying the first time, when you want to breathe, and your body is trying to stop you.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammalian_diving_reflex

Re: How to know when someone is in trouble in the water

#109

Post by rodolphoarruda »

gmrple wrote: post #67
mikeryan wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Approach a drowning person from behind and hold them above the water by their armpits Unless you're a trained lifeguard this is poor advice. As stated above you don't want to get within touching/grabbing distance of a drowning person. Get some sort of intermediary between you and them, a stick, rope, shirt, pants whatever. Something that you can drop if you are at risk. To the point below about their instincts of not…

Most lifeguards that I know are trained not to jump in after a drowning victim EVER unless they have a strong floatation device--the lifeguard tube. Supposedly most of the larger ones should be able to support 5 people. Drowning victims are so dangerous that even people who are trained can run into issues.

There's this myth that in the early days lifeguards were trained to literally punch victims in the nose to knock them out - or bring them back to themselves - to facilitate rescue.

Re: How to know when someone is in trouble in the water

#110

Post by hvflykrur »

When I was 10 I was at a water park and they had some sort of artificial wave generator in one of the pools. It wasn't until last year (when I first read the article) that I realized that what I experienced in that pool was Instinctive Drowning Response. Naturally I realized at the time that I had been in some sort of trouble, but not that that was drowning. The power of the whole "kicking and screaming" trope, I guess.

One of my classmates from school actually swam by me in the pool (while I was drowning) and tried to get me closer to a rope which was hanging by the pool's edge... and when he failed he promptly swam off and did nothing more. (Not that I think that he realized the full gravity of the situation and simply wanted me to die or anything.)

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