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U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

washingtonpost.com

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Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#161

Post by [deleted] »

DanielRibeiro wrote: post #36
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #7

So now is the time to identify the federal prosecutors who filed this and petition the government to have them fired. In addition, of course, to asking for a complete pardon for Snowden. It also should be noted that any of the Congressional investigations into this mess are perfectly capable of giving Snowden a grant of immunity from prosecution. People ask what to do. There are at least two avenues open to nip this…

The pardon petition also only needs more 7k signatures: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snow... Remember that the goal is to get the government address the issue, and show that the people are not fine with the NSA's actions. It would be nice to get them to actually pardon him, but that is a much harder goal.

[deleted]

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#162

Post by LoganCale »

rdouble wrote: post #160
LoganCale wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government spent the last week trying to convince the public that they never spy on U.S. citizens and do not store their data. The documents are a direct authorization from the Attorney General for all the ways in which they are allowed to do exactly that.

Right, but why is that a surprise?

Because it's documented proof of their blatant lies to the public and to Congress. If that's not something big to you, I doubt there are any documents that can be released which will impress you.

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#163

Post by joering2 »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #7

So now is the time to identify the federal prosecutors who filed this and petition the government to have them fired. In addition, of course, to asking for a complete pardon for Snowden. It also should be noted that any of the Congressional investigations into this mess are perfectly capable of giving Snowden a grant of immunity from prosecution. People ask what to do. There are at least two avenues open to nip this…

I have a great respect towards Snowden for what he did. Knowing his life will be over, he was brave enough to continue believing in his citizen's duty and pledge to the Constitution and all American people (not to the Administration that just happened to be more tyrannical as the days go by) and decided he couldn't stand the abuse anymore. I personally believe the only reason we do not have a full speed tyranny in this country and more wars with american troops involved all over the world is because of the people like Assange, Bradley and Snowden. They put a real time breaks on internal abuse; many times before pulling the trigger those in charge ask themselves: "damn what if another 'traitor' will leak this out and my name [and crimes] will come to the light?". We have grown very dangerous government that WE founded and WE continue to pay for and we seem to forget about that...

But in NO MEANS the Government will EVER let him off the hook. Never. Its not that they are vicious or anything, its simply because the system is broken and corrupt to its inner core (by corruption I do not mean someone giving an envelope under the table to win some contract. I am talking about high ranked generals that with no serious evidence just by "believing we are protecting american people" are sending thousands on the war the they damn well know is not being waged in the name of security, but the name of satisfying Industrial Military Complex, in a monetary way). You can see military lock down of entire cities due to the riots on the streets, and yet they will not change their mind, because that would be a warm invitation to anyone else witnessing shit being done under government seal to come forward. It would be a total reboot of the system. Another 4th of July. And what they think about founding fathers [1] is not what you would assume they do.

[1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oP1Ke70Mi8

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#164

Post by rdouble »

LoganCale wrote: post #162
rdouble wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but why is that a surprise?

Because it's documented proof of their blatant lies to the public and to Congress. If that's not something big to you, I doubt there are any documents that can be released which will impress you.

I'd like to see more documents detailing how the system works, and specific instances of it being used to target american citizens. Something along the lines of the information eventually turned up about the Fast and Furious operation, or the Iran Contra affair. Right now it's just a powerpoint and a signed letter.

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#165

Post by betterunix »

genwin wrote: post #116
codex wrote: post #11

It looks like this charge can carry the death penalty because it involves "communications intelligence". From http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/794 : "(a) Whoever, with intent or reason to believe that it is to be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of a foreign nation, communicates, delivers, or transmits, or attempts to communicate, deliver, or transmit, to any foreign government, or…

> ... the sentence of death shall not be imposed unless the jury or, if there is no jury, the court , further finds ... Why even pretend it's a gov't for the people anymore?

You have the right to waive your right to a jury, as it turns out. There might be good reasons for this; maybe you do not believe it is possible for an unbiased jury to be assembled for your case (because it is all over the media and most people already think you are guilty). Maybe your defense hinges on highly technical details that an average juror cannot be expected to understand, but that a well-educated judge can.

As it so happens, juries are not required for a government to be legitimate, to respect the rights of its citizens, or for trials to be democratic. Quite a few legal systems in the present day and historically have a panel of judges decide criminal cases. Neither system is perfect.

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#167

Post by [deleted] »

betterunix wrote: post #151
brown9-2 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But he didn't do that. Are you a whistleblower if what you reveal isn't illegal?

Yes, if what you reveal is unethical but legal. Laws are not handed down from the heavens; laws are created by a notoriously corrupt set of human beings (politicians), and can easily become disconnected from morality.

[deleted]

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#168

Post by mtgx »

eli wrote: post #58
vehementi wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kind of hard to be a whistleblower without breaking some sort of secrecy law.

There actually are whistleblower protections he could have taken advantage of... but it would have meant working within the system (for example, taking his concerns to Congress or the NSA's Inspector General rather than a reporter) and it only applies if he uncovered fraud or illegal activity. AFAIK there isn't any proof that he uncovered anything illegal .

Binney tried to do exactly that - and they sent the FBI to raid his house.

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#169

Post by bertm »

joering2 wrote: post #163
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #7

So now is the time to identify the federal prosecutors who filed this and petition the government to have them fired. In addition, of course, to asking for a complete pardon for Snowden. It also should be noted that any of the Congressional investigations into this mess are perfectly capable of giving Snowden a grant of immunity from prosecution. People ask what to do. There are at least two avenues open to nip this…

I have a great respect towards Snowden for what he did. Knowing his life will be over, he was brave enough to continue believing in his citizen's duty and pledge to the Constitution and all American people (not to the Administration that just happened to be more tyrannical as the days go by) and decided he couldn't stand the abuse anymore. I personally believe the only reason we do not have a full speed tyranny in th…

It happened in the 70s to Daniel Ellsberg, the Pentagon Paper's leaker.

"Judge Byrne dismissed all charges against Ellsberg."

"He and Russo faced charges under the Espionage Act of 1917 and other charges including theft and conspiracy, carrying a total maximum sentence of 115 years."

-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Ellsberg

Re: U.S. charges Edward Snowden with espionage

#170

Post by _delirium »

jsmeaton wrote: post #154

Let's assume this charge is legal and correct for a moment. Why aren't the newspapers (guardian and the post?) and their writers/editors also being charged? Why aren't the newspapers having their paypal and all their bank accounts frozen? We live in very scary times as far as I'm concerned. The US is prosecuting its own citizens for standing up and saying "what you're doing to the rest of the world is not OK". But if…

W.r.t. why the Guardian isn't also being charged: While the act of leaking classified information is a crime, publishing classified information leaked to you by someone else isn't a crime. Here's a law-review article discussing that: https://www.law.upenn.edu/institutes/cerl/conferences/ethics...
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