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Google Hasn’t Changed Their Interview Questions

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Re: Google Hasn’t Changed Their Interview Questions

#51

Post by gaylemcd »

codex wrote: post #25

Yes, they did--just not recently. According to Laszlo Bock, senior vice president of people operations at Google, "We found that brainteasers are a complete waste of time." How did they determine that without asking candidates any brainteasers? Clearly, they did at some point--probably before the author's direct experience. This article is really just a means to promote the author's books and prevent readers of the o…

(1) I was at Google when the study was done. It wasn't before my direct experience.

(2) I've confirmed with a bunch of people currently at Google that, indeed, nothing has changed. This study was done 5+ years ago.

(3) My books don't focus on brainteasers. Thus, if people believe these changes at Google are real, then this would actually make my books seem more relevant, not less.

(4) If brainteasers are banned, this doesn't mean that no one has even asked them. Some people break the rules (because they're unaware of them or because they don't feel that a particular question is a brainteaser). Thus, Google could, theoretically, study how effective brainteasers are even while they are banned.

(5) What Laszlo is saying is provably incorrect. He's saying estimation questions are brainteasers and that they no longer ask such questions. This is false. If he wants to define these questions as brainteasers, he's welcome to do that. However, he would then be wrong about Google continuing to ask brainteasers. By his definition, Google absolutely does ask these "brainteasers" frequently.

(6) What I really suspect is going on is that he misremembered the study (a reasonable thing to conclude, given #5). It was, after all, done 5+ years ago. I don't think the study ever actually looked at brainteasers. I read the results, and I don't remember anything about brainteasers. (They did look at interview scores and job review scores though.)

(7) Huh? It's "just" a means to promote my books? That's a huge leap. My books aren't even mentioned anywhere except for in my bio. You could argue that it indirectly promotes my books, but then basically everyone ever writing anything is promoting their stuff. And, even so, you couldn't say that it's just to promote their stuff. This article is a means to counter a lot of the myths around Google hiring practices. I don't like candidates walking into interviews misinformed.

Re: Google Hasn’t Changed Their Interview Questions

#52

Post by gaylemcd »

asnyder wrote: post #18

Sounds like she's still perpetuating the problem: Software Engineering interviews will focus on your standard coding, algorithm, and system design questions... Why are algorithm questions still being asked in a high-pressure environment? Very few people actually work on algorithms once hired and never in my experience has it actually been a good indicator of actual development competency. As DHH states: http://37sign…

I don't see how I'm perpetuating the problem. I'm just explaining what Google actually does and what they don't do.

Re: Google Hasn’t Changed Their Interview Questions

#53

Post by gaylemcd »

diminoten wrote: post #15
vsla wrote: post #9

I aced the teaser back in college a s still didn't get the internship... What does that tell you?

That you didn't ace the teaser! Or that there are other parts to a Google interview besides the teaser that can determine your employability at Google.

Yup. Exactly.

Re: Google Hasn’t Changed Their Interview Questions

#54

Post by mdisraeli »

autarch wrote: post #33

Personally, I'd find these questions a lot more palatable if they'd change the format a little. Instead of asking "how many gas stations are there in Manhattan" why not ask "what steps would you take to estimate how many gas stations there are in Manhattan"? The latter makes it clear that this isn't some sort of brain-teaser, it's question about process. You could also phrase it as "what information would you need to…

Changing the wording of a question can dramatically change the outcome, and which skills are tested.

"how many gas stations are there in Manhattan" actually makes sense as a question for a venture capitalist firm employee expected to make investment decisions, as the leap from "statement" to "this is something I need to estimate" is absolutely key to the role, and hence something you'd want to test for. I'm sure others can think of much better examples of this kind of thing.

Rather than massive re-wording of the question, you can instead change the framing of the question. The most scary aspect of such questions is that they might come out of the blue, or immediately after a number of completely different questions. Mental inertia will then dictate you stall massively and find the question completely confusing.

Imagine instead that the interviewer stated "We are going to ask some questions that will test for reasoning and deductive skills that you will use on a regular basis in the role". This is similar to changing the wording, but more like real situations. You know you have a meeting with clients (so you're prepared), but they'll ask questions in a difficult and something obtuse manner.

Re: Google Hasn’t Changed Their Interview Questions

#55

Post by gaylemcd »

autarch wrote: post #33

Personally, I'd find these questions a lot more palatable if they'd change the format a little. Instead of asking "how many gas stations are there in Manhattan" why not ask "what steps would you take to estimate how many gas stations there are in Manhattan"? The latter makes it clear that this isn't some sort of brain-teaser, it's question about process. You could also phrase it as "what information would you need to…

"BTW, I've been to Manhattan and noticed that there are remarkably few gas stations there for a city of its size, so whatever estimate you come up with will probably be very, very wrong."

Yes, and that's precisely the sort of thing you're supposed to take into account. Again, you're looking to get in the right ballpark. They're not looking for precision.

Asking "what steps would you take" wouldn't be quite the same question. They want you to actually take those steps to come up with a number.

Ultimately, I'm not necessarily defending estimation questions. I'm just saying that they are, in fact, asked because interviewers don't consider them to be brainteasers.

Re: Google Hasn’t Changed Their Interview Questions

#56

Post by drivebyacct2 »

morpher wrote: post #28
asnyder wrote: post #18

Sounds like she's still perpetuating the problem: Software Engineering interviews will focus on your standard coding, algorithm, and system design questions... Why are algorithm questions still being asked in a high-pressure environment? Very few people actually work on algorithms once hired and never in my experience has it actually been a good indicator of actual development competency. As DHH states: http://37sign…

How do you account for the Dunning-Kruger[1] effect when asking your "How do you rate yourself?" question? I would guess that answers in the range "6 or 7" could span a really wide range of actual knowledge. Does that agree with your experience? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

Ask for code. TALK about algorithms at a high level. I have an aptitude for reading people, but my day two impressions of coding with a new person tend to lead to valid assumptions about them months later.

Re: Google Hasn’t Changed Their Interview Questions

#57

Post by drivebyacct2 »

raldi wrote: post #24

For anyone wondering what relevance an estimation question could possibly have in real life, imagine it's 2004 and you're about to launch GMail. How many hard drives are you going to need?

That's a complicated question with a complicated, nuanced, business-driven answer.

Re: Google Hasn’t Changed Their Interview Questions

#58

Post by gaylemcd »

mdisraeli wrote: post #50
jerrya wrote: post #49

I was definitely asked a "cutting the cake" brain teaser question when I interviewed. Cut a cake fairly into X pieces using Y slices. And it was a reasonable question that may or may not have knocked me out of the job, as long as by reasonable you think it's "fair" to serve some people the bottom half of a cake and other people the top half of a cake. But I of course don't know if that's what knocked me out.

If you were interviewing for a software engineering position, that question makes sense - that reads to me like an algorithm problem (albeit a three-dimensional one). There's also a couple of other roles for which it would make sense. The big problem with that question is "cake". Mappings change our entire perception of a scenario (The mass-grave-filling problem of Tetris being a classic example). Cakes have tops, bo…

Yep. I don't like questions like that, mainly because -- whether it's really an algorithm question or not -- candidates will feel it's a brainteasers. Given that there are more than enough questions that won't be perceived as brainteasers, there's no reason to ask one that might be.

This is the same issue I have with the egg drop problem. It can be logically deduced and so it's sort of a fair question for a software engineer. But, given the abundance of more relevant algorithm questions, there's just no reason to ask it.

Ultimately what it comes down to is this: brainteasers are banned and have always been (or at least for a very, very long time). However, since everyone defines brainteasers a little differently, you could still get a question that you feel is a brainteaser.

Re: Google Hasn’t Changed Their Interview Questions

#59

Post by gaylemcd »

yelnatz wrote: post #19
morpher wrote: post #13

I personally think that "estimation" questions (sometimes called "Fermi problems" since Enrico Fermi was famous for asking them) are a great way of gauging an individuals thought process. They aren't about getting the right answer, but rather about seeing how one breaks down a seemingly difficult question into simpler pieces and determines what can be reasonably estimated. They really don't fall into the category of…

How many golf balls can you fit in a bus? How many plumbers in New York?

Try something like: I have a 100 billion webpages and wish to build a hashtable-like structure that maps from each word to a list of the documents that contains that that word. How many computers do I need to hold this hashtable?

Re: Google Hasn’t Changed Their Interview Questions

#60

Post by raldi »

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #57
raldi wrote: post #24

For anyone wondering what relevance an estimation question could possibly have in real life, imagine it's 2004 and you're about to launch GMail. How many hard drives are you going to need?

That's a complicated question with a complicated, nuanced, business-driven answer.

And yet someone had to answer it.
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