Battery Swap [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: Battery Swap [video]

#121

Post by robomartin » Fri, Jun 21, 2013, 4:50 PM UTC

As an engineer I would have preferred to have seen a shot from under the car showing the actual process. It's unfortunate that they chose to record it from a hundred feet away.

As for the reality of this swap deal. Well, it sounds like a logistical pain in the ass. You are required to come back and get your original battery pack back or pay the difference in cost for the new one. Option number two could be in the thousands of dollars. That means your trip logistics now have to adjust to the location of that particular station or else.

Hypothetically, say you travel from LA to SFO and stay there for work for three months. Will they hold your original battery pack or will it be used to swap into other cars? Your battery could end-up in Nebraska. Then what? How many stations will have this tech and when?

Are they, perhaps, going to charge and store your pack and then somehow ship it to a station near you for reclaiming? If that's the case that would make for a very expensive power-up.

At the end of the day I fail to see how this might convince skeptics unless they suck at math and logical reasoning. Sadly this is very much like their creative financing scheme.

Cool tech but it would have been nice to have gotten far more detail on all points.

Don't get me wrong. I really like Tesla. I am waiting for the SUV and will more than likely buy two of them.

Re: Battery Swap [video]

#122

Post by lotu » Fri, Jun 21, 2013, 5:01 PM UTC

robomartin wrote: post #121

As an engineer I would have preferred to have seen a shot from under the car showing the actual process. It's unfortunate that they chose to record it from a hundred feet away. As for the reality of this swap deal. Well, it sounds like a logistical pain in the ass. You are required to come back and get your original battery pack back or pay the difference in cost for the new one. Option number two could be in the tho…

Well if we assume you only do battery swaps then the cost of your "old" battery would be almost the cost of a new battery so that case you would be paying only small amount for each battery swap.

The reason they do this would be because otherwise someone with a 3 year old battery that needs replacement would be able to get a new battery effectively for free.

Re: Battery Swap [video]

#123

Post by baddox » Fri, Jun 21, 2013, 5:02 PM UTC

jcromartie wrote: post #82

Hermel wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If filling up your tank takes 2 minutes (1 minute filling + 1 minute overhead), you can tank 350 miles per minute. The Tesla S gets 265 miles in 1.5 minutes, which is 175 miles per minute. So your car can be refilled twice as fast as the Tesla S when measured in miles. Furthermore, you need to recharge the Tesla more often. At least, Elon is honest about it and says "this is about convincing the people that are skept…

Most US drivers are not getting 700 miles from a 12 US gallon tank (58 US MPG). The average fuel economy of US cars is 24.6 MPG. An Audi A6, in the US at least, gets 33 highway MPG and has a 19.8 gallon fuel tank. And yes, of course you charge the Tesla more often. You charge it every night when you come home, and it's ready with a full charge the next morning. That's just a totally different usage pattern from only…

> I'd bet that most Tesla drivers will never have to stop to recharge, mostly because they will use their Tesla around town, and will take long trips in another car or fly, because Tesla owners are wealthy.

That's probably true, but much of the recent marketing around battery swaps and transcontinental charging networks is aimed specifically at road trips. I suppose one would argue that they're working on this infrastructure now for the future when much more affordable EVs are available.

Re: Battery Swap [video]

#124

Post by sliverstorm » Fri, Jun 21, 2013, 5:14 PM UTC

forrestthewoods wrote: post #110

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally, doing open-heart surgery on a car requires a clean environment, a careful mechanic, and lots of attention to detail. A subterranean automated wrench platform is a whole 'nother thing.

There are many words I'd use to describe an auto-shop. Clean is not among them.

A good shop is clean. Not hospital room clean, not eat-off-the-floor clean, but clean. Floors swept and rinsed, fluids captured in drain pains, etc.

Re: Battery Swap [video]

#125

Post by stcredzero » Fri, Jun 21, 2013, 5:22 PM UTC

quackerhacker wrote: post #58

lttlrck wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still need to get out to clean the windshield. Whats the big deal with getting out anyway?

I only brought that up since here where I'm at in NorCal, there were tons of bugs when I filed my tank recently. Also if you have kids in the car, it's convenient, it's like asking why are there drive thru's at restaurants, car washes, and atm machines. Not sure that #1 applies to everyone...I remember on a road trip, in Oregon it's against the law for me to fill my OWN tank. EDIT: Added wife's 2 cents

You can take a kid full of cars to a highway stop and get back on the road in under 30 minutes?

I have a hard time doing that with a car full of adults. (Though, to be fair, the cases I'm thinking of involved musicians.)

Re: Battery Swap [video]

#126

Post by stcredzero » Fri, Jun 21, 2013, 5:23 PM UTC

gmaslov wrote: post #108

alainbryden wrote: post #97

I wonder if anyone has considered buying a Tesla (free recharges for life), driving home every day and finding a way to discharge the battery back into the grid through their meter to negate their home electricity bill.

This idea might be up there with saving on your electric bill by installing little turbines on all your water faucets.

For awhile you could buy a natural gas burning Stirling engine that would provide electricity while heating your water with the waste heat.

Re: Battery Swap [video]

#127

Post by stcredzero » Fri, Jun 21, 2013, 5:31 PM UTC

From this, we might infer that the upcoming lower priced models either use the same battery pack or will not have the option to swap packs. Or, maybe the system is designed to accomodate packs of different lengths. The 1st and 3rd seem the most likely.

Re: Battery Swap [video]

#128

Post by leoc » Fri, Jun 21, 2013, 5:41 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #113

leoc wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok. That's a very guzzly car then, though; even other Audis like the A5 seem to do a lot better than that, especially on the highway.

Tesla's competition, from the perspective of performance and price, is very guzzly cars.

But big $100,000 cars like this mid-range S-class Merc http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/vehicles/model/class-S/model-S... seem to have 20+ gallon gas tanks (here's the S550's capacity http://autos.yahoo.com/mercedes-benz/s-class/2013/s550/speci... ) and the ability to manage about 25MPG on the highway. That would place them at 500+ miles from a single fill. (They'll do a lot worse with city driving though: the S550 should only give 350 miles. I think these MPG numbers are the EPA's.)

Re: Battery Swap [video]

#129

Post by leephillips » Fri, Jun 21, 2013, 5:43 PM UTC

leephillips wrote: post #61

swalsh wrote: post #48

Between cars sexier than swimsuit models, and owning all the infrastructure to support them Tesla has a real potential to be a giant company. I don't usually buy individual stocks, but Tesla keeps looking more lucrative in the long term. If he can survive in the short term, there's a great future.

I have little doubt. I live in Virginia, one of the states whose government (or whose county governments) has been conspiring with a cartel of car dealers to try to forbid Tesla from selling their cars. Something happened, because I was in a mall yesterday and suddenly found myself next to a Tesla store. Those cars are stunning in person, inside and out. It was low key, like an Apple store. I don't usually get excite…

This article [0] explains it: what I saw was a showroom; actual purchase must be completed over the internet.

[0] http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142412788732404950457854...

Re: Battery Swap [video]

#130

Post by rossjudson » Fri, Jun 21, 2013, 5:43 PM UTC

Swizec wrote: post #29

lnanek2 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seemed normal to me. I think my wife's BMW SUV thingie fits like 90 liters.

At 10 gallons per minute, that's still just 2 minutes pumping time. (23 gallons) Edit: I checked again, he pumps for 2.5 minutes and gets exactly 23 gallons. So I guess the pump isn't as fast as Elon says on stage. But it still surprised me because, well, that's about twice as long as what I'm used to :)

As Musk points out, this is the fastest pump they could find in their area. Pumps vary tremendously in speed. Actually I'm curious about why the same pumps are sometimes fast, and sometimes very slow. Anybody know? Does tank level really matter that much?