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How to know when someone is in trouble in the water

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Re: How to know when someone is in trouble in the water

#21

Post by rdl »

spullara wrote: post #10

This device on IndieGogo seems really promising: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-seal-wearable-swim-mon... It is just too easy not to notice a drowning person, especially a child, even if they are right in front of you.

How does it work? I assume it's a water pressure sensor which requires more than a foot or two of water to activate, and some kind of timer, combined with the transmitter? (otherwise a collar doesn't really work -- I can keep my neck immersed in water all day and not drown...)

Re: How to know when someone is in trouble in the water

#22

Post by Mindless2112 »

I spent a couple of summers as a lifeguard at a college swimming pool, and I have seen this first-hand.

As a lifeguard, I was well trained in how to rescue but not particularly well trained in how to recognize a drowning victim. There was a time I watched a boy bobbing up and down in the water, looking upward, mouth open, but not appearing to gasp for breath, the whole time wondering if he was in trouble. Luckily he was less than two yards from his mother, and she eventually picked him up. (Also luckily for me, she didn't think anything of it, or I might have been in trouble -- she probably didn't recognize that he was actually drowning either!) Only when I read the original publication of this article was I certain that he had been drowning at the time.

A side-note so that I don't seem like a complete abomination of a lifeguard: I did save a drowning victim at that pool. She displayed the TV-portrayed signs of drowning after jumping off the diving board with no idea how to swim. Probably due to the adrenaline rush, the rescue is a bit fuzzy, but that's where the lifeguard training kicks in.

Re: How to know when someone is in trouble in the water

#24

Post by mikeryan »

Another bit that makes drowning deceptive is that most of the time the victim will be in relatively shallow water or fairly close to the edge of the pool. If you can't swim its usually hard to get out to deep/open water (unless in a beach break) so a lot of kids that struggle will do so within a foot or two of being able to reach a wall or shallow enough water to stand up in.

Re: How to know when someone is in trouble in the water

#25

Post by rdl »

swinnipeg wrote: post #2

The absence of screaming and waving seems obvious after reading it, I realize I am really am conditioned to think if people aren't screaming...etc they aren't in trouble. That said there is definitely some lifeguard propaganda in the article (who knew such a thing existed?): "From beginning to end of the Instinctive Drowning Response people’s bodies remain upright in the water, with no evidence of a supporting kick.…

Most drowning victims are children, so they're not really strong or heavy enough to be a serious threat to an adult who is a decent swimmer (or possibly even able to stand in water where the child is drowning). It's still worth being aware of, and using a life ring or pole or lifejacket or something, but if there were a 5 year old child drowning in a pool, I don't think "might drown me too" would be a realistic fear. (obviously there are ocean/river situations where anyone would be at risk)

Re: How to know when someone is in trouble in the water

#26

Post by knowaveragejoe »

spullara wrote: post #10

This device on IndieGogo seems really promising: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-seal-wearable-swim-mon... It is just too easy not to notice a drowning person, especially a child, even if they are right in front of you.

This seems like a great concept, but I'm curious as to how it works, how reliable/comfortable it is to wear, how it deals with false positives, and so on. The fundraiser page doesn't seem to address any of that.

Re: How to know when someone is in trouble in the water

#27

Post by voidlogic »

parfe wrote: post #4
swinnipeg wrote: post #2

The absence of screaming and waving seems obvious after reading it, I realize I am really am conditioned to think if people aren't screaming...etc they aren't in trouble. That said there is definitely some lifeguard propaganda in the article (who knew such a thing existed?): "From beginning to end of the Instinctive Drowning Response people’s bodies remain upright in the water, with no evidence of a supporting kick.…

A drowning person will endanger his rescuer by instinctively climbing onto the highest point available (the rescuer's head). If you see someone drowning, alert a lifeguard if possible. Depending on the situation, the proper action might require the rescuer to counter intuitively drag the person under water. On the other hand, if no life guard is present, don't just let someone drown, but saving them is a risk. source…

>On the other hand, if no life guard is present, don't just let someone drown, but saving them is a risk.

If you have to do this, my thought has been it is best to approach the drowning person from behind as to make it harder for them to grasp you in their panic.

Re: How to know when someone is in trouble in the water

#28

Post by clarkmoody »

b0rsuk wrote: post #13

"""How did this captain know—from 50 feet away—what the father couldn’t recognize from just 10? Drowning is not the violent, splashing call for help that most people expect. The captain was trained to recognize drowning by experts and years of experience. The father, on the other hand, had learned what drowning looks like by watching television. (...) Drowning is almost always a deceptively quiet event.""" I think th…

You would need a much more comprehensive overview process to eliminate misleading information from movies, even if it were limited to life-threatening misinformation!

One instance I can think of is MRI magnets. Often, a medical drama will cut to someone pushing a button and the magnet coming on. In reality, the magnets are always on and bringing metal objects within range can have dire consequences.

The whole movie Home Alone depicts life-threatening pranks on the burglars. c.f. dropping a clothing iron 3 stories onto someone's face.

Re: How to know when someone is in trouble in the water

#29

Post by hbharadwaj »

hluska wrote: post #5
parfe wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A drowning person will endanger his rescuer by instinctively climbing onto the highest point available (the rescuer's head). If you see someone drowning, alert a lifeguard if possible. Depending on the situation, the proper action might require the rescuer to counter intuitively drag the person under water. On the other hand, if no life guard is present, don't just let someone drown, but saving them is a risk. source…

Just curious...let's say that you see someone drowning, you aren't a trained lifeguard, and there aren't any lifeguards around. Could an untrained person rescue that person safely? Any tips?

Depends on the situation.

In a pool environment, always look for objects to throw. These include tubes, life hooks if available. In case you can't reach the victim, swim towards the victim (but don't reach the victim) with these objects and thrust them out. Else, approach the victim from behind and place your arms under the victims armpits. Place the safety apparatus between you and the victim and drag the victim backwards.

In an open environment with no safety apparatus, first panic and worship all the gods you know (No - don't). Then try to alert if possible. Approach the victim from behind (first para approach) and grab under victim armpits. Remember - this is extremely difficult to attempt. The victim could be heavier than you.

2 things that were repeated again and again during my lifeguard training sessions - reassure the victim as much as possible once you are in control. If you can't control the victim during the approach, pull the victim suddenly under the water. That will give the victim a pause and allow you to get free. ( There was a technique taught for that as well - lot of lifeguard manuals available online. I wish lifeguard and CPR was made mandatory at some levels.)

Re: How to know when someone is in trouble in the water

#30

Post by mikeash »

clarkmoody wrote: post #28
b0rsuk wrote: post #13

"""How did this captain know—from 50 feet away—what the father couldn’t recognize from just 10? Drowning is not the violent, splashing call for help that most people expect. The captain was trained to recognize drowning by experts and years of experience. The father, on the other hand, had learned what drowning looks like by watching television. (...) Drowning is almost always a deceptively quiet event.""" I think th…

You would need a much more comprehensive overview process to eliminate misleading information from movies, even if it were limited to life-threatening misinformation! One instance I can think of is MRI magnets. Often, a medical drama will cut to someone pushing a button and the magnet coming on. In reality, the magnets are always on and bringing metal objects within range can have dire consequences. The whole movie H…

Banning the portrayal of drivers looking at their passengers while talking to them would probably save more lives than banning inaccurate portrayals of drowning.
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