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We were wrong

kickstarter.com

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Re: We were wrong

#121

Post by tomjen3 »

citricsquid wrote: post #54
angersock wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you mind listing some of the quotes you found "rapey"?

The blog post linked from the kickstarter blog post includes lots of examples of what most people would consider to be "rapey" “Decide that you’re going to sit in a position where you can rub her leg and back. Physically pick her up and sit her on your lap. Don’t ask for permission. Be dominant. Force her to rebuff your advances.” http://caseymalone.com/post/53339539674/this-is-not-fucking-...

That doesn't really sound rapey to me, but I can see how people see things like don't ask for permission and be dominant and force her as rapey. Really though, it is the difference between going for the kiss and stopping when she turns her head (rebuff your advances) and asking "may I kiss you". Any good salesman (and that is what you are doing in a club, selling yourself) knows that one of them gives a much better result, but neither is rape (kissing her even when she says no would likely be assult, but not rape as no genitalia is involved).

Re: We were wrong

#122

Post by jmduke »

dspeyer wrote: post #103
wmeredith wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom of Speech goes out the window when you start dealing with private enterprise. Kickstarter doesn't have the power to "ban" anything more than you or I. They're just addressing the kind of content they don't want to be promoting, which is totally within their rights.

There don't seem to be any direct competitors to kickstarter, so when kickstarter chooses to ban something from their site, they ban it from getting kickstarted. Just because they don't use violence doesn't mean they don't have power, or that their power doesn't come with responsibility.

There are lots of competitors to kickstarter, such as http://www.indiegogo.com/. Hell, the idea of a kickstarter isn't exactly difficult to replicate: we've seen many, many sites (App.Net and Soylent among them) 'roll their own'.

Re: We were wrong

#123

Post by hacker789 »

Cushman wrote: post #88
hacker789 wrote: post #28

Women are sensitive, fragile, inferior creatures who require constant, vigilant protection from honorable men. If it becomes necessary to take a few quotes out of context in our noble quest to protect the fairer sex, so be it. Kudos to Kickstarter for adhering to feminist principles. > The thing that the commenters on social media are leaving out is that the advice was taken from a section in the guide offering advic…

Women have been the target of systematic oppression for millenia, of which sexual violence has been a primary tool. Are you open to the possibility that that might not be over quite yet? That that might actually be deserving of a little sensitivity?

Oh yes. I'm sure everyone would agree history has been so much easier on men than on women. The world isn't black and white.

Re: We were wrong

#124

Post by cgag »

lewispollard wrote: post #65
xauronx wrote: post #4

Jesus, seems like an over reaction. Books and guides like this are nothing new, and should be taken in context/used appropriately. A nerd in a club is going to take this brash advice like: "All the greatest seducers in history could not keep their hands off of women. They aggressively escalated physically with every woman they were flirting with. They began touching them immediately, kept great body language and eye…

I would guess that people buying a seduction guide don't really understand 'women' - in that they believe that women are somehow different, unapproachable and alien to them. The misogyny stems from the book not teaching these people that women are equal and worthy of respect, but instead teaching them to ignore consent and be an 'alpha bro' stereotype.

You don't have to disrespect women to understand that they largely want the guy to make the first move. I don't get what all the hate here is about.

Re: We were wrong

#126

Post by Anderkent »

ebbv wrote: post #107

Dear fellow HN dwellers, If you read the writings of the Guide's author and do not recognize that it is misogynistic and advocating sexual assault, you have a problem. That problem is that you are mistaking sexual assault for "taking the first step." You do not need to resort to pulling out your dick and forcibly placing the woman's hand on it in order to "make a move." There's literally hundreds of other things that…

> You do not need to resort to pulling out your dick and forcibly placing the woman's hand on it in order to "make a move."

That quote was never given as 'taking the first step'. It was given as "how to begin when you're finally alone in the bedroom with mutual consent for sex". That is obvious even after only reading the one part of his 'guide' that includes this quote.

Re: We were wrong

#127

Post by throwaway4004 »

ebbv wrote: post #107

Dear fellow HN dwellers, If you read the writings of the Guide's author and do not recognize that it is misogynistic and advocating sexual assault, you have a problem. That problem is that you are mistaking sexual assault for "taking the first step." You do not need to resort to pulling out your dick and forcibly placing the woman's hand on it in order to "make a move." There's literally hundreds of other things that…

You haven't read the material, you took a quote out of context. You don't know what you are talking about.

Congrats on being married and 34????

Re: We were wrong

#128

Post by garethadams »

ebbv wrote: post #107

Dear fellow HN dwellers, If you read the writings of the Guide's author and do not recognize that it is misogynistic and advocating sexual assault, you have a problem. That problem is that you are mistaking sexual assault for "taking the first step." You do not need to resort to pulling out your dick and forcibly placing the woman's hand on it in order to "make a move." There's literally hundreds of other things that…

It's a good job the "pulling out your dick and forcibly placing the woman's hand on it" advice comes in the section of things you do after you're hundreds of moves down the line and you're alone in an intimate setting with a girl, after a number of dates then.

The counter-article writer doesn't make clear that he's picked quotes from all over the guide, they aren't all "the first thing you should do" quotes

Re: We were wrong

#129

Post by hosay123 »

Heh. So enslaving sentient organisms for the purposes of entertainment (cockroach robot app) is classed as a "creative work", while teaching teenagers how to pick up women results in outcry?

And no I'm not suggesting some equivalence between women and cockroaches, I'm objecting to their frivolous dismissal of the project on the grounds of it not being a "creative work".

Re: We were wrong

#130

Post by boldpanda »

This book will sell more copies now that it's been banned by Kickstarter.

I'm curious how the funding was going before this, I can't imagine it was getting much traction.

I quantify this as a paranoid over reaction by Kickstarter, if the post wasn't breaking any of their terms of service.

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