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We were wrong

kickstarter.com

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Re: We were wrong

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you mind listing some of the quotes you found "rapey"?

The blog post linked from the kickstarter blog post includes lots of examples of what most people would consider to be "rapey" “Decide that you’re going to sit in a position where you can rub her leg and back. Physically pick her up and sit her on your lap. Don’t ask for permission. Be dominant. Force her to rebuff your advances.” http://caseymalone.com/post/53339539674/this-is-not-fucking-...

I think "rapey" would be more appropriate here if that escalated to holding her down, forcing her clothes off and violating her. Instead, a lot of women enjoy that kind of interaction when you're already fooling around(which is what section of the guide its from) - and if they don't, they can quite easily refuse such an advance in a number of ways.

Re: We were wrong

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The excerpted quotes of advice were pretty damn rapey. The problem is that many (every one I've seen) of these "seduction" manuals are written in a way that is hostile toward women.

Would you mind listing some of the quotes you found "rapey"?

[deleted]

Re: We were wrong

#114
post #107

Dear fellow HN dwellers, If you read the writings of the Guide's author and do not recognize that it is misogynistic and advocating sexual assault, you have a problem. That problem is that you are mistaking sexual assault for "taking the first step." You do not need to resort to pulling out your dick and forcibly placing the woman's hand on it in order to "make a move." There's literally hundreds of other things that…

"it is their judgment, it is their consent that matters. Not yours."

Amen brother.

Re: We were wrong

#115

Women are sensitive, fragile, inferior creatures who require constant, vigilant protection from honorable men. If it becomes necessary to take a few quotes out of context in our noble quest to protect the fairer sex, so be it. Kudos to Kickstarter for adhering to feminist principles. > The thing that the commenters on social media are leaving out is that the advice was taken from a section in the guide offering advic…

I'm so glad this is the top comment.

I've read almost all of the author's comments on reddit and he writes like a man who respects women deeply but also understands that a lot of men do not understand how to talk to and deal with women.

I understand that 'seduction' is a band brand, one which people react negatively to when the see it, but by looking at the material you will probably find that it isn't offensive at all.

The quotes are taken out of context and are not a good sample of the material. The truth is, most women are so bored at a bar and in life with the guys they meet, they are probably bigger beneficiaries of the material than the guys who read it.

Re: We were wrong

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you mind listing some of the quotes you found "rapey"?

The blog post linked from the kickstarter blog post includes lots of examples of what most people would consider to be "rapey" “Decide that you’re going to sit in a position where you can rub her leg and back. Physically pick her up and sit her on your lap. Don’t ask for permission. Be dominant. Force her to rebuff your advances.” http://caseymalone.com/post/53339539674/this-is-not-fucking-...

Quotes about intimate behaviour taken out of context will always seem rapey. Sure, doing this to someone you never met before is creepy at least. Picking a girl you spent a lot of time with and putting her on your lap when she's already shown she's comfortable with physical contact is rapey how?

The expression there is escalation. And the author is as clear as he can be that if she says no at any point, you back off.

Re: We were wrong

#117
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you mind listing some of the quotes you found "rapey"?

sure! “Pull out your cock and put her hand on it. Remember, she is letting you do this because you have established yourself as a LEADER. Don’t ask for permission, GRAB HER HAND, and put it right on your dick.“

Don't bother including the context of that, it would ruin the 'rapey' narrative.

Re: We were wrong

#118
post #107

Dear fellow HN dwellers, If you read the writings of the Guide's author and do not recognize that it is misogynistic and advocating sexual assault, you have a problem. That problem is that you are mistaking sexual assault for "taking the first step." You do not need to resort to pulling out your dick and forcibly placing the woman's hand on it in order to "make a move." There's literally hundreds of other things that…

[deleted]

Re: We were wrong

#119
Kickstarter is a private company that can decide what they want to have on their site for whatever reason they want. They have to answer to their customers. If you disagree, don't use Kickstarter.

But the idea that they have to comply with "freedom of speech" or be consistent or anything else doesn't make sense to me. Every store curates it's inventory with whatever rules they deem appropriate. Kickstarter never claimed that any possible piece of content was ok.

Re: We were wrong

#120
post #2

Maybe I was raised by a bunch of rabid dogs... But after reading the cached page... I really don't understand what the creator did wrong? He was a guy that I a lot of people can identify with, whom is publishing a book about his experiences? Is seduction intrinsically bad?

Most of the negative arguments against seduction have a few root causes. Seduction science is very disturbing.

First, it disturbs women because it's perceived as a shift in the roles and their power over the other.

Second, it disturbs men, at least some of them, because when read it from the armchair, looks just ridiculous.

Third, expert players ("PUA"s) are very often troubled people, who become expert because they have a great need for validation. Their writings can be perfectly valid and effective, but surrounded by tons of self-validation, so they cause aversion to the person rather than the content.

There is a mix of #2 and #3 in the reaction to your comment.

The problem is that the things written look rape when put out of context. Abstractly, they are all forms of physical assertion. Nobody, except fools and rapists, would do them where inappropriate.

Putting the girl's hand in one's k is something that is effective in a very specific context. Putting a a girl on one's lap is something that, again, is effective in a very specific context.

Both of them are not* done unless one expects a consenting reaction.

The key difference between physical assertiveness and rape is that the first is done with expected consensus, the second with expected dissent (so that force is involved).

The armchair critics are mixing the two, just because they don't have idea of how those things work in real life.

Regarding the general idea of seduction, that's a separate subject, and it's actually complex and multi layered.

Summarizing, seduction is at his essence psychological hacking. Asserting that it's bad the exact analogue of a non-engineer saying that hacking is bad.

To conclude, the guy writing the book is clearly psychologically troubled, and there are way better books than his.

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