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We were wrong

kickstarter.com

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Re: We were wrong

#11
post #2

Maybe I was raised by a bunch of rabid dogs... But after reading the cached page... I really don't understand what the creator did wrong? He was a guy that I a lot of people can identify with, whom is publishing a book about his experiences? Is seduction intrinsically bad?

See http://curiousrat.com/kickstarter-allowed-funding-for-a-sexu...

Quoting from the "manual":

> 5) Get CLOSE to her, damn it!

> To quote Rob Judge, “Personal space is for pussies.” I already told you that the most successful seducers are those who can’t keep their hands off of women. Well you’re not gonna be able to do that if you aren’t in close!”

> “All the greatest seducers in history could not keep their hands off of women. They aggressively escalated physically with every woman they were flirting with. They began touching them immediately, kept great body language and eye contact, and were shameless in their physicality. Even when a girl rejects your advances, she KNOWS that you desire her. That’s hot. It arouses her physically and psychologically.

> Decide that you’re going to sit in a position where you can rub her leg and back. Physically pick her up and sit her on your lap. Don’t ask for permission. Be dominant. Force her to rebuff your advances.

This is the bit that's being decried as "intrinsically bad" - not seduction in general - because it advocates invading another person's personal space and touching them when they've expressed they don't want to be touched "because it will arouse her".

Re: We were wrong

#12
post #2

Maybe I was raised by a bunch of rabid dogs... But after reading the cached page... I really don't understand what the creator did wrong? He was a guy that I a lot of people can identify with, whom is publishing a book about his experiences? Is seduction intrinsically bad?

When the guide is written like a rape manual, yes, yes it is. It features quotes like:

"Pull out your cock and put her hand on it. Remember, she is letting you do this because you have established yourself as a LEADER. Don't ask for permission, GRAB HER HAND, and put it right on your dick."

(from: http://www.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/1dvnem/above_the_...)

The whole thing is disgusting, degrading, and has no place on this earth.

Re: We were wrong

#13
post #2

Maybe I was raised by a bunch of rabid dogs... But after reading the cached page... I really don't understand what the creator did wrong? He was a guy that I a lot of people can identify with, whom is publishing a book about his experiences? Is seduction intrinsically bad?

[deleted]

Re: We were wrong

#15
I won't touch the issue of whether the action was right or wrong here on Hacker News, but I think everyone has to admit that this is a brilliant example of an apology done well.

They do not equivocate (the "sorry you were offended" apology) and they take direct action to fix what their users felt was wrong (new policy made) as well as somewhat atone for the original offense (donation to RAINN). It's also written simply but very skillfully: zero weasel words or anything.

I happen to agree with the action taken, but bravo in any case for the brilliant apology!

Re: We were wrong

#16
No, they weren't wrong. They decided not to do a snap judgement on a controversial topic. Let it slip with what little time is left, examine post facto how it got through, tighten the cracks, explain it to the punters. They did everything right except think that they did it 'so wrong'. Making snap judgments on new areas of information can bite you back and make things much worse.

Re: We were wrong

#17

I think it's worth reading through the creator's response to the situation: http://pastebin.com/zwHYzCZe . He claims and reasonably supports that the highlighted excerpts were taken out of context.

Definitely. Key part to quote:

> The gist of the controversial advice is "Don't wait for signs before you make your move. Let her be the one who rejects your advances. If she says no, stop immediately and tell her you don't want to do anything that would make her uncomfortable. Try again at a later time if appropriate or cease entirely if she is absolutely not interested."

> The thing that the commenters on social media are leaving out is that the advice was taken from a section in the guide offering advice on what to do AFTER a man has met a cute girl, gotten her phone number, gone on dates, spent time getting to know her, and now are alone behind closed doors fooling around. If "Don't wait for signs, make the first move" promotes sexual assault, then "Kiss the Girl" from The Little Mermaid was a song about rape.

Re: We were wrong

#18
post #3

I guess to understand this one has to consider that Kickstarter is based in puritan America?

I'm not sure where you get that from. Puritans have never been big on the rights of women.

Re: We were wrong

#19
post #11
post #2

Maybe I was raised by a bunch of rabid dogs... But after reading the cached page... I really don't understand what the creator did wrong? He was a guy that I a lot of people can identify with, whom is publishing a book about his experiences? Is seduction intrinsically bad?

See http://curiousrat.com/kickstarter-allowed-funding-for-a-sexu... Quoting from the "manual": > 5) Get CLOSE to her, damn it! > To quote Rob Judge, “Personal space is for pussies.” I already told you that the most successful seducers are those who can’t keep their hands off of women. Well you’re not gonna be able to do that if you aren’t in close!” > “All the greatest seducers in history could not keep their hands o…

A bit further on they also write that the seducer should learn to figure out when NO really means NO. And if humans are wired that way (responding to touch) then it's not the fault of somebody writing a book. There is also scientific research that people are more likely to respond to your requests if you touch them while asking. It's just psychology.

Re: We were wrong

#20
post #2

Maybe I was raised by a bunch of rabid dogs... But after reading the cached page... I really don't understand what the creator did wrong? He was a guy that I a lot of people can identify with, whom is publishing a book about his experiences? Is seduction intrinsically bad?

[deleted]
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