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Forcing Microsoft to reverse DRM will harm the games industry

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Re: Forcing Microsoft to reverse DRM will harm the games industry

#11

Post by mikeyG23 »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #6
Zikes wrote: post #4

There is nothing in this article to convince me of Microsoft's DRM model as leading us into any sort of growth in the games industry. If anything, it was entirely a step in the opposite direction. We would have had to relinquish control of our physical purchases to Microsoft's 24-hour scrutiny. They would have unfairly taken a cut of used game sales, in direct violation of First Sale Doctrine. They would like to try…

> Games sharing can still work, if they concede that a small amount of so-called abuse is acceptable. Publishers would never allow this.

Publishers would never allow game sharing to begin with, its funny how people think that publishers would allow people to share a single game with 10 different people.

There is no way 24-hour DRM or not that they would allow that. Microsoft themselves never clarified how game sharing would work, which means it was just marketing/PR to get people to accept the need for daily online check-ins.

If you think they would actually allow people to share games with 10 friends (with no clear plans or proof of game sharing actually working) I have some snake oil I would like to sell you :p

Re: Forcing Microsoft to reverse DRM will harm the games industry

#12

Post by angersock »

Zikes wrote: post #9
mynameisvlad wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Games sharing can still work, if they concede that a small amount of so-called abuse is acceptable. Publishers would never allow this.

That's where the real change in gaming needs to take place, with the publishers. It's been well-proven by Steam et al. that if you price correctly and use an unobtrusive (or even nonexistent in the case of GOG) DRM scheme, people would much rather buy and support their favorite games developers (and publishers) than go through the effort of pirating a title. That's why games sharing would work with only minimal abuse…

"The sky's the limit if the industry can learn to treat their customers with respect."

Fucking shame it is then that the customers do not extend the same courtesy.

Are you familiar with the phrase "pearls before swine"?

Re: Forcing Microsoft to reverse DRM will harm the games industry

#13

Post by Zikes »

angersock wrote: post #12
Zikes wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's where the real change in gaming needs to take place, with the publishers. It's been well-proven by Steam et al. that if you price correctly and use an unobtrusive (or even nonexistent in the case of GOG) DRM scheme, people would much rather buy and support their favorite games developers (and publishers) than go through the effort of pirating a title. That's why games sharing would work with only minimal abuse…

"The sky's the limit if the industry can learn to treat their customers with respect." Fucking shame it is then that the customers do not extend the same courtesy. Are you familiar with the phrase "pearls before swine"?

If you'd like to cite any examples of gamers needlessly disrespecting the games industry, in whole or in part, I'm all ears.

As for this particular instance, the DRM scheme proposed was clearly anti-consumer in nature. The disrespect the gaming community showed Microsoft as a result of it was entirely justified.

It will be some time before Microsoft regains the respect of the majority of gamers, if at all.

Re: Forcing Microsoft to reverse DRM will harm the games industry

#14

Post by mikelat »

angersock wrote: post #10
RexRollman wrote: post #8

I call bullshit. DRM has never been good.

Which is why Steam has been such a fail...oh wait, no it hasn't. Maybe, perhaps, DRM can be done in a way that satisfies all stakeholders.

You can't really compare Steam's DRM to what Microsoft was proposing. Steam doesn't have the online checks and it isn't your only option if you want to buy PC games. A lot of the DRM Microsoft was going to implement simply didn't make sense for a platform that was supposedly closed to begin with.

Re: Forcing Microsoft to reverse DRM will harm the games industry

#15

Post by MiguelHudnandez »

I don't get why it has to be such a big, all-or-nothing deal. Offer the same new games as downloads with the new terms and as discs.

If you want the more modern terms with their conveniences and downsides, buy it online through the console and have it tied to your account.

If you want to buy a disc, you follow the old rules. You must have the disc to play, but you can also loan it to friends or play it offline.

It has worked that way with the existing Xbox 360, except you can't find the newest games online.

Re: Forcing Microsoft to reverse DRM will harm the games industry

#16

Post by angersock »

mikelat wrote: post #14
angersock wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why Steam has been such a fail...oh wait, no it hasn't. Maybe, perhaps, DRM can be done in a way that satisfies all stakeholders.

You can't really compare Steam's DRM to what Microsoft was proposing. Steam doesn't have the online checks and it isn't your only option if you want to buy PC games. A lot of the DRM Microsoft was going to implement simply didn't make sense for a platform that was supposedly closed to begin with.

Steam phones homes given the opportunity--Microsoft saying, hey, once a day the box phones home is completely reasonable, especially if it enables certain other features as it seems it would.

Re: Forcing Microsoft to reverse DRM will harm the games industry

#17

Post by angersock »

Zikes wrote: post #13
angersock wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The sky's the limit if the industry can learn to treat their customers with respect." Fucking shame it is then that the customers do not extend the same courtesy. Are you familiar with the phrase "pearls before swine"?

If you'd like to cite any examples of gamers needlessly disrespecting the games industry, in whole or in part, I'm all ears. As for this particular instance, the DRM scheme proposed was clearly anti-consumer in nature. The disrespect the gaming community showed Microsoft as a result of it was entirely justified. It will be some time before Microsoft regains the respect of the majority of gamers, if at all.

Sure.

First, consider how many gamers can articulate the difference between developers and publishers, and who they get angry at when games don't go according to plan.

In my own home town, Timegate Studios just shuddered from the debacle of Aliens: Colonial Marines--and was widely blamed by ignorant gamers despite a history of solid games and expansions.

Gamers bitched to no end about Steam when it was required for CS 1.6, even though it was the future. Look at all the complaints about CS:GO from the hardcore players (one memorable thread involved a HUD tweak driving some clan rabid because it screwed up their grenade-throwing technique). Others complain about Valve doing nothing since Episode 2, ignoring Left 4 Dead and Team Fortress 2 and DOTA and whatnot.

Look at the way gamers and reviewers panned Duke Nukem Forever, ignoring the fact that dozens of people poured over a decade of their lives into that thing.

Look at the flooding of gamers over to free-to-play and ad-driven titles, pushing the race-to-the-bottom of devs only to then give angry reviews on the app store.

Look at how every online game reviewer and game poster crows and white knights about the portrayl of women and gender roles in games, and yet look at how they actually spend their dollar vote.

Look at how the gamers mocked Doom3 for having a pretty solid and amazing lighting engine and pushing shadow tech to the limits of its time.

Look how gamers today complain about older titles that don't hold their hands with navigation and lots of simple mission objectives--and then bitch about how games today are too linear.

Gamers are the worst sort of customer after dollar web-hosting ones.

Re: Forcing Microsoft to reverse DRM will harm the games industry

#20

Post by ragefuel »

angersock wrote: post #12
Zikes wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's where the real change in gaming needs to take place, with the publishers. It's been well-proven by Steam et al. that if you price correctly and use an unobtrusive (or even nonexistent in the case of GOG) DRM scheme, people would much rather buy and support their favorite games developers (and publishers) than go through the effort of pirating a title. That's why games sharing would work with only minimal abuse…

"The sky's the limit if the industry can learn to treat their customers with respect." Fucking shame it is then that the customers do not extend the same courtesy. Are you familiar with the phrase "pearls before swine"?

I’m sorry, I thought a capitalist enterprise like the games industry only really wanted one thing out of gamers: MONEY.

Turns out it wants respect, too! Well too goddamn bad. Take that money we just gave you and buy another Maserati. Or pile all that money together into a huge pile and languish, tears in your eyes about how nobody loves you and everybody hates you. Good gravy, you sound like Taylor Swift strumming her guitar and asking the audience, “Why you gotta be so mean?” Jesus fucking Christ, woman, you have multiple industry awards and you’re swimming in cash, why do you need our love as well?

And before you tell me that game designers don’t make enough money to replicate the excesses that we used to see in the mid-nineties, please remember that the reason why that is so is because 1) well, for nothing were those things called excesses, and 2) the reason game designers get fucked over is less because because of their troglodytic subhuman mouth-breathing customers, but more because of… oh, I don’t know, crappy publisher deals and the long-standing American tradition of fucking over the talent.

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