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This is a web page

justinjackson.ca

91–100 of 445 posts

Re: This is a web page

#92

"At it's heart, web design should be about words." No. The web is not just a place for text / words, that is not its heart and soul, and therefore neither is that the case for web design. It really never has been. I see no great argument in favor of words being the core over any other form of expression. Today's bandwidth more than allows for beautiful video, animation, high quality graphics and photos, etc. Or low k…

On the other hand, yesterday there was a discussion on HN of Steve Jobs remark that his legacy won't survive long, because technology quickly becomes obsolete:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5906202

Words have much better chance of survival than other elements of web design. What was considered a decent design 10+ years ago, is today often laughable.

Re: This is a web page

#93

"At it's heart, web design should be about words." No. The web is not just a place for text / words, that is not its heart and soul, and therefore neither is that the case for web design. It really never has been. I see no great argument in favor of words being the core over any other form of expression. Today's bandwidth more than allows for beautiful video, animation, high quality graphics and photos, etc. Or low k…

I think his point is that it's a communication system that facilitates communication amongst everyone. And everyone can communicate in words, typed out[0]. And not everyone can produce or effectively communicate using beautiful video, high quality graphics and, I guess, responsive design. [1]

It's interesting to wonder what the next-common "wide area" communication mode is -- photos are widely shared, but is there a lot truly communicated with them? I guess it depends on whether you think those picture's typically say more than a thousand words. Videos, too. They serve as a topic of discussion amongst peers, not as a mode of discussion themselves.

In fact the deeper point remains even if I conceded your argument: there are always those who excel in the creation of art and in presentation, regardless of medium. What makes the Internet different is that it facilitates peer to peer communication, that quality powered for the most part by the universality of written text. I guess that's why it if often compared to the invention of the printing press, another time such a fundamental shift in human communication took place (facilitating many to everyone, but not everyone to everyone).

Those who excel in arts and communication -- and, to an unusual degree! engineering -- are still the magic wizards/grey eminences of the medium, prominently shaping something that wouldn't exist without them.

[0] Words, typed out: A manner that's arguably truly more efficient and useful than what it's originated to represent, speech. Imagine consuming all the text content you read everyday on the web (such as this!) delivered by speech.

[1] Leaving out the fact, that of course, not everyone has the ability to participate in words, typed out. While I do think it has served to interconnect everyone in terms of exchanging thoughts, it also serves as a means of separation between those who can and those who can't: lacking access or straight up capability to use this mode.

Edit: added some more thoughts.

Re: This is a web page

#94

"At it's heart, web design should be about words." No. The web is not just a place for text / words, that is not its heart and soul, and therefore neither is that the case for web design. It really never has been. I see no great argument in favor of words being the core over any other form of expression. Today's bandwidth more than allows for beautiful video, animation, high quality graphics and photos, etc. Or low k…

change "words" to "content".

Right. The majority of images on webpages are the design elements, not the photos. His point would still stand if he included a relevant image inline. Focus goes to the content, not the chrome.

Re: This is a web page

#96
I agree, but...

...the author made the choice to display the text at 600px wide with a font size of 18px. There's plenty of markup (design) to point out key ideas on the page.

Would this writing have the same impact if the font was at 12px, with smaller spacing between paragraphs, or maybe with a page width of 1280px? I don't think so.

Re: This is a web page

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it not self-obvious that if every page attempting to serve up content similar to that in the OP (pictureless editorial), the web would be bleak and characterless? Not debating the effectiveness of that kind of design, but rather pointing out the obviousness that this sort of anti-"always, ever" statement is easily validated.

Most of the web is awash in ugly junk. Whenever I go to a machine that doesn't have adblock, Ghostery etc., I am increasingly horrified. It's like a highway with so many billboards that you can't see the direction signs, never mind enjoy the view. That or some sort of infinite supermarket magazine rack. I HATE the way web design has evolved. I want to make the design choices at my end, not have them imposed on me or…

I imagine a lot of users would love to have a web browser alternative or software extension that gave users complete creative control in an accessible way- including advertisements, colors, typography and margins.

I think such a software would have to be free, but I also believe it would change the way web design and advertising works if it caught on.

Re: This is a web page

#98
Slightly off topic, but if we're talking about simplicity...

why are people still using this doctype:

" rel="nofollow">http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">

instead of the beautifully simple HTML5 doctype:

I get that people might use the old doctype out of habit, but it's such an ugly, unnecessary habit, and it would probably be smart to work on discarding it. At the very least, we should be making sure that new developers learn the new doctype.

Re: This is a web page

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think so. That isn't what the person said. Their entire post was built around stripping down web design to the words. In fact, the author was very precise in the usage of the term "words." This for example: "But the most powerful tool on the web is still words." That blatantly is not the case in my opinion. Photos are vastly more powerful than words on today's web. That's why 3/4 of all the posts on Reddit's…

He was taking a stab at visual design / aesthetics being prioritized over content when building a product. Words are used simply here to better communicate his point. Nowhere did he say that words are more important than photos or video. You say "No" to him, but yet you know he would not disagree with what you have said regarding photos and video. I find the whole response to his original post borderline strawman.

Nowhere did the author actually say that.

I would argue the evidence for focus on "words" is overwhelming, and that you're attempting to change the meaning of the piece.

The author did say this however:

"At it's heart, web design should be about words. Words don't come after the design is done. Words are the beginning, the core, the focus."

The title is "Words"

The author uses "writing" and "reading" and "words" over and over again.

The word "content" isn't used once, nor anything like it (except as a negative, against content management systems).

And the author says:

"If you're a web designer, or a client who is working with one, I'd like to challenge you to think about words first. Instead of starting with a style guide or a Photoshop mockup, start with words on a page."

Again, the author is intentionally guiding toward a very precise thing: words. There is no confusion on the focus, it's blatant.

Re: This is a web page

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you think Hacker News does look like that? A lot of people (below) have commented that they like HN because it is just text and links on a page.

Absolutely, it's one of the things I love about HN, it's simple. But the fact it appears simple doesn't mean no design's gone into it. It's still visually appealing. I suspect if HN was just that, regardless of its content, it'd have a lot less traffic.

I dont think you are getting the point of his post. He specifically mentions "Will that additional styling, image, or hyperlink give my audience more understanding? ".

I think HN is a perfect example of what he is arguing.

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