Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Your Feedback Matters – Update on Xbox One

news.xbox.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 232 posts

Re: Your Feedback Matters – Update on Xbox One

#211

Post by davorak »

sliverstorm wrote: post #198
davorak wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But doesn't that just mean you have to trust the light? This problem is solved by having the power to the camera hardwired to the light. If the camera is on the light will be on, well until the led burns out but that takes a while. Last I checked and my model of macbook has this but I do not know how common it is over all. I do not think this is common practice for microphones and it seems like it should be.

But that means you have to trust power was hardwired to the light.

Or you open it up and check at least with the model I have. I do not know about the new models with retina displays I hear they are harder to take apart.

Re: Your Feedback Matters – Update on Xbox One

#212

Post by kabdib »

nknighthb wrote: post #185
kabdib wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ex Kinect engineer here. I wrote a bunch of firmware in the original Kinect and a bunch of support stuff on the 360 console. I also did a lot of design on the new Kinect system before I left MS. I won't reveal any secrets, but: 1) It should be very easy to determine if the Kinect is listening when it should not be, at least when the unit is off. So whatever MS claims the unit does should be verifiable. 2) I trust the…

If they're that serious, why not do the obvious thing and provide a physical switch? Why make it dependent on code we all know is fallible?

Well, what does a switch do? How does a physical switch work? Phones -- the old ones -- have big honking mechanical switches, but you can still listen through the things, with a little engineering.

A switch that just twiddles a bit on an input line can be ignored by software.

A switch that controls power might be interesting. But then there's a cable from the camera to the console itself, which could carry some power, and might be used to run a microphone, or maybe the camera electronics, a little bit.

Really, your recourse is to unplug the camera. Or not have one.

Others have pointed out that there are microphones on laptops and tablets (that appear to be off, but who knows?), and many celebrated cases in which reverse-spyware has been used to recover stolen hardware.

This stuff is all around us now. There's no coordinated plan for NSA-like folks to glue it together, or light it up without us knowing, and I think this would be hard, at least for the time being, and doubly hard to do without someone noticing.

Re: Your Feedback Matters – Update on Xbox One

#213

Post by GVIrish »

gfodor wrote: post #60
rmrfrmrf wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Microsoft doesn't set the price of games. What would have happened would be developers setting slightly higher prices than XBOX360, citing inflation and 'increased costs of development for more sophisticated systems' as reasons why the games are still more expensive. In other words, they'd be saying, "If it weren't digital only, it would be $89.99 instead of $59.99, so count your blessings!" Consumers are so well-…

1) I don't buy that somehow gaming is a price fixing scheme. SNES games were $80 and that was 20 years ago. Market forces affect prices, and the used game market is a large market force. 2) "Re-authenticate every 24 hours" does not imply decent, always-on Internet. Most of the U.S. can re-authenticate every 24 hours. And those who are in the small minority that cannot should not prevent everyone else from the benefit…

1. SNES games were more expensive because they were on cartridges and manufacturing cartridges was/is far more expensive than manufacturing CDs/DVDs

2. So while someone's connection is flaky they can't play games. Users in entire countries would regularly have problems playing games. Overseas military wouldn't be able to play at all. You can say, "Just make a military edition" but how exactly would you control who can get one? How would you prevent military people from reselling them.

And perhaps the biggest problem with the online DRM is that if the DRM servers ever go down, every XboxOne on Earth would be insta-bricked. Xbox Live has gone down multiple times and PSN was down for a month, it is more than a passing possibility that the DRM servers could go down. Especially because they make an extremely attractive target for hackers.

Even with all of that, nothing is stopping Microsoft from offering digital-download games for cheaper than physical games. Maybe their DRM architecture is an all or nothing deal, but that would be the fault of their lack of foresight.

Re: Your Feedback Matters – Update on Xbox One

#214

Post by ebbv »

codeka wrote: post #173
ebbv wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so I was wrong on one of the 3. It still cannot be removed or turned off. It can be disabled by software which we have to trust is really disabling it.

Do people really not trust that it wouldn't actually be disabled if you disabled it? Can the paranoid not just put a piece of tape over the lens, or point it at a wall?

Are you really saying it's OK that I have to put tape over a brand new piece of $499 equipment I bought? You think that's solid design?

I think that's reason enough to avoid it.

Re: Your Feedback Matters – Update on Xbox One

#215

Post by nknighthb »

kabdib wrote: post #212
nknighthb wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they're that serious, why not do the obvious thing and provide a physical switch? Why make it dependent on code we all know is fallible?

Well, what does a switch do? How does a physical switch work? Phones -- the old ones -- have big honking mechanical switches, but you can still listen through the things, with a little engineering. A switch that just twiddles a bit on an input line can be ignored by software. A switch that controls power might be interesting. But then there's a cable from the camera to the console itself, which could carry some power…

The "switch" in a telephone was never designed as a privacy mechanism, and the device itself necessarily requires a live connection to the telephone network at all times.

By contrast, there is no compelling reason the Kinect component(s) must be connected to the xbox when not in use.

I obviously don't know what sort of bus is being used internally, but if it were, for example, USB, then the mechanical switch could easily behave as the equivalent of removing a USB connector from a socket.

The laptop/microphone argument is a red herring. "Everybody else is doing it" is not a valid excuse for doing the wrong thing.

Re: Your Feedback Matters – Update on Xbox One

#216

Post by GVIrish »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #94
imilligan wrote: post #48

I'm a bit disappointed at this change - on one hand, it's nice to know that I can share my disc games if I want to. On the other hand though, this effectively means they're killing off their disk-less approach to owning/installing games. This means that instead of having all my games tied to my account on any device I own, I have to lug my games around with my everywhere I go. This also means picking my vegetative se…

Sucks to be you. That's what happens when people shortsightedly complain about things over and over again. It just goes back to the status quo. Without the 24 hour check, there's no way to guarantee that the games tied to disks are still owned by you and you didn't just give them to someone.

How was Microsoft's plan any better than the status quo. Having to take your physical discs somewhere is not some huge burden that will break the backs of people who want to play games at someone else's house. Fact of the matter is that someone would have to sit there and wait for a multiply gigabyte download to finish in order to play a game at someone else's house without the disc. Forget trying to play more than one game unless you've got a couple of days to burn downloading.

Meanwhile, with MSFT's old plan you couldn't lend a game to anyone, couldn't rent a game from anyone, and it seems like you could only sell your game back to a retailer.

People keep saying, "The games would've been cheaper" but there were no indications that was going to happen. If games were going to be cheaper, don't you think Microsoft would've touted that as a benefit at least ONCE since they unveiled the Xbox One?

Re: Your Feedback Matters – Update on Xbox One

#217

Post by dragontamer »

pandaman wrote: post #204
sliverstorm wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not even close to truth How so? The WiiU seems to me like the most likely to have a bunch of exclusives, if only because of the distinct architecture.

It will have a bunch exclusives but not as many as PS4 and X1. Architecture has nothing to do with this - vast majority of exclusives comes from the first party studios (studios owned by the respective console manufacturer) and second parties (independent studio titles, published by the console manufacturer). There are some random third party (publishers like EA,Activision,Ubi etc) exclusives but from what I can tell…

A huge chunk of XBox1 and PS4 "exclusives" are available on PC. This fact is only going to be more true now that the XBox1 and PS4 are just (weaker) PCs. (using an AMD Jaguar with AMD7850-ish GPU)

Go down the lists yourself. http://www.ign.com/wikis/xbox-one/List_of_Xbox_One_Games http://www.ign.com/videos/2013/06/18/the-ps4-exclusives-you-...

The majority of these "exclusives", especially the big ones like TitanFall or Metal Gear Solid 5. Most of the Indie-game "exclusives" on PS4 are actually on Steam or will be on Steam. (ie: Transistor)

Nintendo Games however, have never really appeared on PC. No chance ever, especially because the WiiU gamepad is so unique. * Super Mario Bros 2 U * Pikmin 3 * Super Smash Bros. * MarioKart 8 * NintendoLand

----------

The next would be PS4, as there are more PS4 exclusives that aren't coming to PC. Finally, Microsoft tends to shoot itself in the foot and release all of their exclusives on PC anyway. So...

PC + WiiU for me. Possibly PS4 if Killzone is good enough, but thats $400 for a couple of games that I may or may not care about. (and may come to the PC anyway)

Re: Your Feedback Matters – Update on Xbox One

#218

Post by pandaman »

dragontamer wrote: post #217
pandaman wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will have a bunch exclusives but not as many as PS4 and X1. Architecture has nothing to do with this - vast majority of exclusives comes from the first party studios (studios owned by the respective console manufacturer) and second parties (independent studio titles, published by the console manufacturer). There are some random third party (publishers like EA,Activision,Ubi etc) exclusives but from what I can tell…

A huge chunk of XBox1 and PS4 "exclusives" are available on PC. This fact is only going to be more true now that the XBox1 and PS4 are just (weaker) PCs. (using an AMD Jaguar with AMD7850-ish GPU) Go down the lists yourself. http://www.ign.com/wikis/xbox-one/List_of_Xbox_One_Games http://www.ign.com/videos/2013/06/18/the-ps4-exclusives-you-... The majority of these "exclusives", especially the big ones like TitanFall…

>A huge chunk of XBox1 and PS4 "exclusives" are available on PC.

It depends on your definition of "huge", I guess. I know just a few games like Halo 1 (and 2 maybe), Alan Wake, which were exclusives on varios xboxes and became available on PC at later time. Don't know any playstation games like that, at least from the recent generations.

Your list (the second link is a video I did not watch) only shows multi-platform, some of which is available on PC. Also I will remind you that this is not the list of all the games. A transition between generations is usually covered with multiplatforms to compensate for the small installed base. Check out the list of exclusives for Wii, PS3 and 360 to make a more realistic picture.

>Nintendo Games however, have never really appeared on PC. No chance ever, especially because the WiiU gamepad is so unique. * Super Mario Bros 2 U * Pikmin 3 * Super Smash Bros. * MarioKart 8 * NintendoLand

Neither had Sony's games. * Infamous 2 * God of War 3 * Playstation All Star Battle Royale * GT 6 * Playstation Home

I don't question your tastes, some people like Nintendo games (otherwise Nintendo had been out of business long time ago). But there is a huge logical leap between "I like these games" and "there are objectively more games like these".

Re: Your Feedback Matters – Update on Xbox One

#219

Post by mikelat »

jevinskie wrote: post #181
mikelat wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could very well do that. You could also crack open the kinect as soon as you buy it and change it so you can disable it by a switch or something like that. Although permanent disconnection apparently isn't a good idea as saying "xbox on" will I hear be the only way you turn the device on. Really though I think it'd be easier for them to just give customers the option not to plug it in, but my guess is that they'r…

> "xbox on" will I hear be the only way you turn the device on. Really? What about mute people? Microsoft can't be that accessibility-impaired!

I'm just telling you what I've read. I don't agree with it, but it's reasonable to assume they ship a kinect with every xbox one, they want people to use it and they probably aren't thinking of mute people.

Re: Your Feedback Matters – Update on Xbox One

#220

Post by Narishma »

ericd wrote: post #210
kaze wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Can the paranoid not just put a piece of tape over the lens,or point it at a wall? - Yes one could tape it. Don't apply the tape directly since repeated application and removal of tape can impair camera functionality due to residual adhesive accumulation and the depositing of dust etc on the residual adhesive. Use Microfiber based cloth material between the tape and camera. - But having said that, I find it painful…

Put a hat on it? Why are we debating this?

Because there's no valid reason for it to be required to always be connected.
Post reply on HN