PHP 5.5 • Hacker News Board

Re: PHP 5.5

#41

Post by TheAnimus » Thu, Jun 20, 2013, 12:34 PM UTC

kmage wrote: post #37

TheAnimus wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sort of agree with you, but then I come at it from the view point of why choose PHP? Myself, I can't think of a single awnser, but then again I'm the kind of person who learns a programing language or paradigm for fun. However there is an elephant in the room with PHP, it has, quite frankly some terrible creations made by it. In much the same way MS had a whole bunch of technologies around DCOM and the like which s…

> I think PHP really does need to try and clean up its image. Sorry, but you obviously have not been taking notice over the past year or two. PHP really has been cleaning up its image. Go have a look at PHP-FIG, composer and packagist for starters. Yes, there are problems. Yes, some/most may think that there are better solutions. But to think that PHP has not been "cleaning up its image" is just wrong.

>Sorry, but you obviously have not been taking notice over the past year or two.

I'll admit, I haven't really, because I'll turn it round, why would I?

We've seen Erlang start to be used quite a lot, Scala is becoming very interesting, and F# is appearing suitably mainstreme.

What features would make me think "hmm, I should check out what they are doing in PHP"?

Looking now I still see a cluttered array of APIs, some pretending they are C from the 80s, others hinting that they at least knew of objects in their design.

A quick look for static analysis rule systems for say our CI system: http://mark-story.com/posts/view/static-analysis-tools-for-p...

Wow, that's pretty poor.

What I do again see, are PHP developers who are not fluent in any other language. I always find that odd. For instance I've been doing mostly C# since version 2. But I would probably pass most Java or CamL interview questions anyone had. I am happy in C# knowing what I am missing from other languages (well, not happy, just its the right choice for the things I've been doing).

In short, PHP has an image problem with plenty of people. I am one of them. They can't easily solve it, without breaking a whole bunch of existing code, as most of my complaints are inherent languages features and core API design (or lack there off). I don't nock languages that eschew OO, but I do nock ones that implement it, just very, very badly.

Re: PHP 5.5

#42

Post by mgkimsal » Thu, Jun 20, 2013, 12:39 PM UTC

skrebbel wrote: post #21

manuletroll wrote: post #9

Am I the only one thinking PHP needs more stuff removed rather than added ?

Yes. Removing stuff from a programming language has virtually no benefit and a huge real economic cost. That, of course, is under the assumption that the programming language has users. I could see them deprecating some stuff, and adding yet another E_EVEN_STRICTER level that tosses ugly notifications when deprecated things are done. That would be nice.

IIRC E_DEPRECATED notices are triggered when deprecated stuff is referenced.

http://php.net/manual/en/errorfunc.constants.php

E_DEPRECATED - Run-time notices. Enable this to receive warnings about code that will not work in future versions. (Since PHP 5.3.0)

Re: PHP 5.5

#43

Post by stevelaz » Thu, Jun 20, 2013, 12:40 PM UTC

porker wrote: post #40

Best resource for learning about coroutines in (PHP|general)?

Check out Lua Coroutines, here's a starter link: http://lua-users.org/wiki/CoroutinesTutorial

Re: PHP 5.5

#44

Post by coldtea » Thu, Jun 20, 2013, 12:42 PM UTC

voltagex_ wrote: post #35

coldtea wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you now, get with the program and get a VPS like everybody else.

I don't think this is a solution for everyone. Even though VPSes are cheap, if you're not making any money from running them, they're still a cost to you.

>I don't think this is a solution for everyone.

No, but it's very much a solution for any HN developer in a Western country.

He knows what to do (hence "HN") and the money are insignificant.

I got a 512MB SSD VPS for $5/month from a major player. Similar plans exist all around. If $60/year is a "cost to you" and you are a developer in the US/Western Europe, then you're doing it wrong.

Re: PHP 5.5

#45

Post by wdmeldon » Thu, Jun 20, 2013, 12:42 PM UTC

griffindy wrote: post #31

Tomdarkness wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I ask why it will take so long? I'm working on a medium to large scale project and we will be likely rolling the new version out to our staging environment within a week and assuming everything goes smoothly to the production environment not long after that.

If michh is working on plugins for other people, shared hosts can be pretty behind on their PHP versions. I just had to backport a wordpress plugin to 5.2(!), which came out in 2006. EDIT: meant PHP versions, not plugins.

Thats the curse of distributable code unfortunately. And PHP only makes it worse because it's old versions are absolutely terrible...

Re: PHP 5.5

#46

Post by coldtea » Thu, Jun 20, 2013, 12:42 PM UTC

Jeremy1026 wrote: post #32

coldtea wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say that people who develop on XP are even fewer than those who deploy on XP. It's a 12 year old OS -- surely they have moved to Vista, 7 or 8 by now.

You would think, my employer is still running XP on the developers machines, with no plan on an upgrade in the near future.

Run, don't walk (if you can).

Re: PHP 5.5

#47

Post by coldtea » Thu, Jun 20, 2013, 12:44 PM UTC

TheAnimus wrote: post #41

kmage wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think PHP really does need to try and clean up its image. Sorry, but you obviously have not been taking notice over the past year or two. PHP really has been cleaning up its image. Go have a look at PHP-FIG, composer and packagist for starters. Yes, there are problems. Yes, some/most may think that there are better solutions. But to think that PHP has not been "cleaning up its image" is just wrong.

>Sorry, but you obviously have not been taking notice over the past year or two. I'll admit, I haven't really, because I'll turn it round, why would I? We've seen Erlang start to be used quite a lot, Scala is becoming very interesting, and F# is appearing suitably mainstreme. What features would make me think "hmm, I should check out what they are doing in PHP"? Looking now I still see a cluttered array of APIs, some…

>We've seen Erlang start to be used quite a lot, Scala is becoming very interesting, and F# is appearing suitably mainstream

Your definition of mainstream must differ from the dictionary's.

Re: PHP 5.5

#48

Post by agwa » Thu, Jun 20, 2013, 12:47 PM UTC

rjknight wrote: post #14

angersock wrote: post #10

They added coroutines in a minor number patch. wat.

PHP's versioning has generally been a bit weird since the abortive PHP 6 project. PHP 6 was meant to be the version that implemented full unicode support, but this proved to be very difficult, with the result that major new features had to go into the 5.x branch while 6.x remained in development (which, I guess, it still is). 5.3 added closures and 5.4 added traits, so adding coroutines in 5.5 is not inconsistent wit…

It seems like every major software project reaches a point where the major number just stops changing. Linux too - it became clear that it was going to be 2.6.X.Y forever, so they renumbered to 3.X.Y to make the version string shorter.

I guess it's a sign of maturity: the project has reached a solid codebase with good development practices so there won't be any more overhauls that warrant a major number increase.

Re: PHP 5.5

#49

Post by dkhenry » Thu, Jun 20, 2013, 12:51 PM UTC

And what I still don't see is anything saying they are taking their performance problems seriously. Still nothing saying they are fixing their documentation. Nothing addressing their hodgepodge of legacy code and mixed methods of implementing features. Its like their upset that people have moved on, but instead of providing a better core for people to build products on they keep adding chrome to the fringes of the language hoping to get more people sucked into developing for it only to realize that once they do anything of significant size in PHP they will need to do a full rewrite into a language that can actually scale or turn to a PHP to C++ lexer to actually get a product that doesn't also server as a Data center toaster oven.

Re: PHP 5.5

#50

Post by BaconJuice » Thu, Jun 20, 2013, 12:51 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #44

voltagex_ wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is a solution for everyone. Even though VPSes are cheap, if you're not making any money from running them, they're still a cost to you.

> I don't think this is a solution for everyone. No, but it's very much a solution for any HN developer in a Western country. He knows what to do (hence "HN") and the money are insignificant. I got a 512MB SSD VPS for $5/month from a major player. Similar plans exist all around. If $60/year is a "cost to you" and you are a developer in the US/Western Europe, then you're doing it wrong.

Mind sharing this $5 vps please? I'd like one.