Live data from Hacker News

The Internet Just Made Microsoft Kill a Car for a Faster Horse

medium.com

131–140 of 206 posts

Re: The Internet Just Made Microsoft Kill a Car for a Faster Horse

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When what's being created is a timeless piece of art, 10 years is not long-lived support. People still play NES games, and I want to be able to play my current gen games 30 years from now.

And I'm sure there's some sort of long term solution that would disable the 24 hour check (which obviously doesn't need to happen anymore) when the authentication servers were to be decommissioned. This isn't Microsoft's first rodeo.

Yeah, even if they did, how are you going to use your games once your Xbox One is defective and you can't transfer your games to another console, because the DRM servers were turned off?

Edit: I don't accept a solution where I just have to hope that they will do something that enables me to play my games once the authentication servers have been decomissioned.

If I buy something, I want to know upfront what they will do, and it has to be guaranteed, not just a PR statement.

It has to be part of the TOS and I should be able to hold them accountable if they do not deliver.

Re: The Internet Just Made Microsoft Kill a Car for a Faster Horse

#132

Try hard as they might, it's impossible to make those "features" sound good. This one is especially amazing: "You could re-sell your physical disc game to Gamestop or any participating outlet that opted into Microsoft’s revenue sharing system." Gee, thanks, Microsoft! It's not like those outlets will pass the cost right onto the consumer or anything (oh wait, they will). It's incredible how the Xbox team thought, "Lo…

I really doubt you'll have to download the whole game before playing. MS has been working on progressive download of binaries for a long time. The last couple versions of Office would let you start using the apps in a couple of minutes, and it would prioritize downloading whatever features you were using. It's pretty smooth, and they've been licensing it for games for a while (under the PlayReady platform).

Re: The Internet Just Made Microsoft Kill a Car for a Faster Horse

#133
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The XBOX 360 is arguably the most popular console of its generation. After the PS4 launch event all my friends didn't really care. They were waiting for the XBOX event. XBOX's reputation and popularity, even with its RROD issues was massive. It is amazing how quickly this can be destroyed. Microsoft didn't clearly present what you could and couldn't do with the XBOX ONE. They hadn't worked out every caveat. This mean…

> The XBOX 360 is arguably the most popular console of its generation. Is it, though? http://vgchartz.com/embeds/worldwide_totals.png

Console sales are not that important. How many people have it plugged into their TV. How many people regularly play is a better sign of popularity.

This is 2011. Wii came in 3rd for number of games sold

http://www.vgchartz.com/yearly/2011/Global/

2012. A massive drop off for Wii

http://www.vgchartz.com/yearly/2012/Global/

The Wii was / is a big success but the 360 has had stunning longevity and a very passionate player base.

Re: The Internet Just Made Microsoft Kill a Car for a Faster Horse

#135
I have no idea how MS backpedaled so fast. Suddenly no region restrictions? Can't sell downloaded games? All the licensing deals with publishers & GameStop reneged? How the heck did they pivot to a completely different business model in just a few days?

Re: The Internet Just Made Microsoft Kill a Car for a Faster Horse

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Microsoft on the other hand has a history of just shutting down their DRM servers without making it right for the customers who bought into their DRM'd products. Source? Microsoft is incredibly well known for supporting products int he long term. They only shut down Xbox Live for the original Xbox in 2010. And Windows XP is still infamously supported.

They turned off the MSN Music DRM Servers! People that bought there lost the ability to transfer their music away from their device. I sometimes play games that are many decades old, and as anyone that collects games knows, consoles tend to live shorter than physical game copies. So what am I going to do with a Xbox One in 20 years after the DRM Server were turned off? Hope that the console never fails so I don't los…

> I sometimes play games that are many decades old

Thats one thing steam is actually pretty good for, its got lots of older games (some from the early 80s!) that generally just work on pretty much any modern PC.

Re: The Internet Just Made Microsoft Kill a Car for a Faster Horse

#137
This article has about one good paragraph (the first one), then descends into mindless internet-hating drivel. The internet didn't make Microsoft do anything - Microsoft, for better or worse, capitulated to popular demand.

Maybe Microsoft's problem was a marketing problem. It's not the fault of the general public that a multi-billion dollar organisation can't communicate its vision. As the article states, Apple managed to push its vision of the iPhone and iPad through in spite of the vocal opposition.

Re: The Internet Just Made Microsoft Kill a Car for a Faster Horse

#138

Try hard as they might, it's impossible to make those "features" sound good. This one is especially amazing: "You could re-sell your physical disc game to Gamestop or any participating outlet that opted into Microsoft’s revenue sharing system." Gee, thanks, Microsoft! It's not like those outlets will pass the cost right onto the consumer or anything (oh wait, they will). It's incredible how the Xbox team thought, "Lo…

> If you consider sharing to be going over to a friend's house, entering your password, then waiting 3.5 hours for a download to finish to be in some way innovative or interesting MS is playing the long game. The console will probably be around for 6-7 years. Back then my internet connection speed at home was about 6Mbit, today its 100Mbits and a download of 10GB usually takes about 20 minutes, so i would really love…

I have 100mbit, and while steam can fully saturate it there is definitely a (not too long of) wait for the larger games from 20-40 min.

Re: The Internet Just Made Microsoft Kill a Car for a Faster Horse

#139
post #65

Try hard as they might, it's impossible to make those "features" sound good. This one is especially amazing: "You could re-sell your physical disc game to Gamestop or any participating outlet that opted into Microsoft’s revenue sharing system." Gee, thanks, Microsoft! It's not like those outlets will pass the cost right onto the consumer or anything (oh wait, they will). It's incredible how the Xbox team thought, "Lo…

>It's incredible how the Xbox team thought, "Look at that money over there. Let's take it!" What's next, Wal-Mart charging Ralph Lauren every time a customer comes in wearing a Polo shirt (because why should other clothing companies get free advertising in their store)? Could you explain this analogy because it makes zero sense to me. >The other issue? For the author to be completely honest, every "benefit" mentioned…

> I would imagine they would allow you to play parts of the game without needing to install the whole game, similar to Steam.

afaik steam does not do this, is it a recent feature?

Re: The Internet Just Made Microsoft Kill a Car for a Faster Horse

#140
What a terrible article.

First, the analogy is completely wrong.

Second, Microsoft is realizing people are getting seriously tired of the bullshit "always on" concept. It's hard to justify and is widely rejected as a valid technical limitation on platforms where you expect to always have an internet connection (and is only accepted when the gameplay itself REQUIRES a connection, unlike the late SimCity). It's completely unacceptable in a device that historically has been played without an internet connection, and in the best case, that scenario becomes like the PC, in that it's only acceptable when the user wants to play some form of internet-based multiplayer.

There is no valid technical justification for "it has to either be all physical CDs or you have to have to connect to our servers every 24 hours". With a properly secured console, it should be fairly trivial to support shared digital games without requiring a ping.

I, surely less intelligent than the entirety of the xbox team, came up with this in about 10 seconds:

Person A informs server of intent to share game G with person B.

Server sends a message to person A: "game G disabled for period X hours". This message is signed for authenticity, with public key crypto, verifiable by a public key stored in secured memory on the console.

Server sends a message to person B: "game G activated and enabled for period X hours". This message signed identically to #2.

Person B starts game G, console verifies signed access card, if valid, downloads game. Once download/install is complete, console again verifies access card. If valid, runs it. Periodically, every 30 minutes, console checks running processes against associated access cards. If an access card becomes invalid, the process is terminated gracefully (save progress, notify user why).

Person A tries to start game G. Console verifies signed access card, if valid. Access is restricted, so console informs user G is temporarily unavailable due to being shard with Person B.

Surely this isn't that difficult to implement? And now you don't have to be online except to download the digital game.

I seriously HATE it when companies try to impose nonsensical, unjustifiable, technically wrong "limitations" on me just because it suits them. Stop it.

Post reply on HN