NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Education in America • Hacker News Board

Re: NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Education in America

#61

Post by danielweber » Wed, Jun 19, 2013, 6:40 PM UTC

rossjudson wrote: post #30

rayiner wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For all the hand-wringing, the current federal student loan system (under Obama's PAY-E program) has pretty sensible repayment terms. You pay a maximum of 10% of your earnings above 150% of the household poverty level (but no more than you would under an ordinary 10 year repayment plan), capitalized interest capped (over the lifetime of the loan) at 10% of the original principal, balance forgiven after 20 years. It's…

Good info. The problem I see with a cap is that it's one size fits all. I'd rather see a system where a school can charge higher rates if it is confident that its graduates will be able to repay those loans. 20 years just seems too long. And the key point here is that when a balance is forgiven, the institution should bear the cost, not the government. Maybe that's already the case. Can you provide more detail?

the institution should bear the cost

That assumes they really feel it. If a school charges you $500,000 per year for tuition and then gives you financial aid of $480,000 per year, they aren't really giving you that money.

If a school extends you $150,000 in credit, and then in 20 years you've only paid $40,000 of it back, they haven't really lost $110,000. They are just practicing perfect price discrimination, getting the most money from the people most willing to pay, backed up by the government who is doing the work of auditing people's tax records to ensure compliance.

Re: NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Education in America

#62

Post by sklice » Wed, Jun 19, 2013, 7:57 PM UTC

joonix wrote: post #55

jonhmchan wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to NYU, and I disagree. I am not from a rich family. No one in my family earned a college degree before me and they immigrated to the States with little to nothing. They were smart enough to start saving early for my education so I wouldn't have to pay a dime, but despite that, I still have loans. Thankfully I'm well on my way to paying them off, and early, because of the skills and the network I think I could…

I never said NYU is all rich kids. That's obviously not the case given so many are going into debt to attend. What I'm trying to say is it's "intended for rich kids." People who have to borrow $200k just for tuition and books to attend should NOT GO. Period! Go to the best public school in your state. NYU is not superior to UCLA, UT, Berkeley, etc for undergrad.

You are still overgeneralizing. I went to NYU over UC Berkeley and don't regret it one bit. Sure, if you are premed or prelaw and have the intention of going straight to grad school after finishing undergrad, your argument holds great weight. But that's not everyone; people have different goals. Some people want to go into finance and work on Wall Street, others want to act on broadway, etc. And for people with these types of ambitions, NYU is hands down the better option. Nowhere else can you have the opportunity to intern at pretty much any type of company imaginable, network, and have such rich cultural experiences all while being a college student (well, other than Columbia). Sure, NYU is more expensive, but it's an investment that can yield higher dividends. Case in point, NYU was substantially more expensive for me to attend than UC Berkeley; however, I will be starting work at a major Wall Street investment bank in the fall. Berkeley's placement onto Wall Street is nowhere near comparable, so the likelihood of me landing such a job had I went to Berkeley would have been pretty much nonexistent. So, while the cost of attending NYU was higher, the future cash flows I am generating as a result of attending NYU are much higher than what Berkeley would have generated, justifying the cost. And that doesn't even take into account intangible assets, like my overall happiness and how much I've grown from living in NYC. At the end of the day, you can't generalize; it comes down to the individual, his/her goals, and whether he/she takes full advantage of the opportunities presented to them.

Re: NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Education in America

#63

Post by nijk » Wed, Jun 19, 2013, 8:55 PM UTC

mtsmith85 wrote: post #10

joonix wrote: post #7

NYU is a school for rich kids. It's a vacation for students who want college fun, but prefer it to be in an urban setting like NYC (and the best part of NY, to be sure), rather than in a small college town with its frat parties and beer pong. IMO, it's not the ideal place to study at all. Too many distractions. If you're a liberal arts student you can probably take advantage of all the events, museums, intellectual s…

Did you go to NYU, or are you just out to insult those who did? I went to NYU. I credit it with developing a lot of the skills that have gotten me to where I am today. This comes with a very clear understanding that my degree, while not directly related to what I do for a living, is still hugely useful in my day-to-day life. I have a substantial amount of debt; most college kids do, anyhow. I credit NYU with giving m…

If you are paying off your loans, you aren't who is being discussed here. Every school has its upper quartiles and lower quartiles.

Re: NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Education in America

#64

Post by nijk » Wed, Jun 19, 2013, 8:56 PM UTC

bllybrgrmstr wrote: post #39

joonix wrote: post #7

NYU is a school for rich kids. It's a vacation for students who want college fun, but prefer it to be in an urban setting like NYC (and the best part of NY, to be sure), rather than in a small college town with its frat parties and beer pong. IMO, it's not the ideal place to study at all. Too many distractions. If you're a liberal arts student you can probably take advantage of all the events, museums, intellectual s…

> there's no way I would want to study pre-med or engineering or the like there (even if disregarding the costs). NYU's Courant Institute is the top ranked applied math program in the States... http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-gradu...

Graduate school.

Re: NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Education in America

#65

Post by nijk » Thu, Jun 20, 2013, 2:42 AM UTC

j_s wrote: post #6

> building itself less like a university and more like a for-profit corporation This concept was discussed recently on the EconTalk podcast http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2013/06/pallotta_on_cha.htm... "The way we think about charity is dead wrong" http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_pallotta_the_way_we_think_about... Uncharitable: How Restraints on Nonprofits Undermine Their Potential http://www.amazon.com/dp/1584659556/

Palotta is just providing cover for the parasitic fundraising class.

He has zero connection to actual work in the field of charity accountability and measuring effectiveness. Contrast against GiveDirectly, Against Malaria Foundation, GiveWell, and J-PAL.