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DuckDuckGo Sees Record Traffic After NSA PRISM Scandal

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Re: DuckDuckGo Sees Record Traffic After NSA PRISM Scandal

#101
post #96

I have a strange phobia. Even though I think I have an understanding of how Google works, I have this (irrational?) belief that no matter what I do Google can see it. That somehow, someway, even if I use DuckDuckGo, Google is aware of it and tracking me anyway. Sometimes I see an ad on the internet that seems relevant to a private, in person conversation I had with someone, and that same "Google feeling" washes over…

That's not irrational at all - Google tracks almost everything you do on the web via the Google analytics code and Adsense code that are on the web pages you visit, not just via your searches.

Re: DuckDuckGo Sees Record Traffic After NSA PRISM Scandal

#102
post #49

I actually switched to DuckDuckGo because the Chrome team decided to make using a Google a worse experience than using any other search engine in the latest beta client. https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=230607 Unfortunately, DuckDuckGo results are way worse than Google from what I can tell so I still end up frequently going back and searching Google for things :(

You can search from DDG by appending !g to your search

Re: DuckDuckGo Sees Record Traffic After NSA PRISM Scandal

#103
post #18

Google's strategy is to profit from advertising. It fundamentally benefits from knowing as much about its users as possible. Every tactic it has will always support that strategy or it will risk failure. You can tell its strategy motivates it toward evil (its term, not mine), because its slogan is "Don't be evil." It chose that slogan because it risks being evil, in its own terms. It doesn't need a slogan like "Don't…

Whatever you feel about Google's actions, there's no need to concoct elaborate stories around and speculative theories about the origin of Google's 'don't be evil' slogan. You can look it up. According to http://blogoscoped.com/archive/2007-07-16-n55.html , the 'don't be evil' slogan came from Paul Buchheit, who was brand-new to the company when he proposed it at a corporate-values brainstorming meeting. This meeting…

It's also worth noting that Paul Buchheit worked at Intel before Google: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Buchheit and I remember him railing about big companies and the sort of sclerotic bureaucracy that prevailed at big companies.

I think Paul also wanted to pick an idea that would prevent Google from becoming a typical big company. But I don't recall there ever being any sort of "Google's strategy leans it toward evil; we need to avoid that" undertone in Paul's suggestion. In my mind, it was more like "avoid how almost all larger companies naturally end up being."

Re: DuckDuckGo Sees Record Traffic After NSA PRISM Scandal

#104
This is absolutely what happens when you find a successful long-play strategy and position yourself right. DDG is probably never going to be as big as Google, but it doesn't need to be. There is likely a growing group of people that doesn't so much like the idea of Google tracking them down and using their information for other things, or governments getting that information. A small portion of a huge audience could likely be millions, certainly enough to support a business, even if it's not a huge business.

Re: DuckDuckGo Sees Record Traffic After NSA PRISM Scandal

#105
post #96

I have a strange phobia. Even though I think I have an understanding of how Google works, I have this (irrational?) belief that no matter what I do Google can see it. That somehow, someway, even if I use DuckDuckGo, Google is aware of it and tracking me anyway. Sometimes I see an ad on the internet that seems relevant to a private, in person conversation I had with someone, and that same "Google feeling" washes over…

That's not irrational at all - Google tracks almost everything you do on the web via the Google analytics code and Adsense code that are on the web pages you visit, not just via your searches.

Don't forget the browser itself, if you use Chrome.

Re: DuckDuckGo Sees Record Traffic After NSA PRISM Scandal

#106

At the end of the article the author insinuates that the Bing ad partnership might lend itself to tracking users or otherwise making the service less secure and anonymous. Is that possible?

IIRC it depends how the ads are routed. The ads could be piped through duckduckgo so Bing only receives searches to return contextual ads for but has no knowledge of the IPs for each search. Duckduckgo then embeds the ads in the search page and returns it to the searcher, then forgets their IP. On the other hand if there's just a bit of javascript on the search page that says "Tell bing to put ads on this page using…

In the past I believe I've seen search ad links on DDG that included my IP address in the URL.

Re: DuckDuckGo Sees Record Traffic After NSA PRISM Scandal

#107

This is absolutely what happens when you find a successful long-play strategy and position yourself right. DDG is probably never going to be as big as Google, but it doesn't need to be. There is likely a growing group of people that doesn't so much like the idea of Google tracking them down and using their information for other things, or governments getting that information. A small portion of a huge audience could…

What's DDG's business model?

Re: DuckDuckGo Sees Record Traffic After NSA PRISM Scandal

#108
post #24
post #18

Google's strategy is to profit from advertising. It fundamentally benefits from knowing as much about its users as possible. Every tactic it has will always support that strategy or it will risk failure. You can tell its strategy motivates it toward evil (its term, not mine), because its slogan is "Don't be evil." It chose that slogan because it risks being evil, in its own terms. It doesn't need a slogan like "Don't…

Okay, but what's the end point? What's the "evil" destination for Google? When do we know Google has arrived there, if you say reaching that point is inevitable? I think that even if Google themselves never do anything "evil", by any definition, there still remains this problem of "having very important user data" that you don't want to fall "in the wrong hands". The more data it has about the users, the more other,…

Google does encrypt user data at rest. The problem is that they also have the decryption keys. They need to be able to see the data in plain text in order to target ads and improve their services. That's their entire business models. So, there is pretty much zero chance that Google will ever "implement some real encryption and decentralization in its services." If we want a Search Engine/Email Provider/Video Sharing Service/Thousand Other Things Google Does that is decentralized and encrypted client-side, it would have to be built by a different company or community with a different mission and profit model.

Re: DuckDuckGo Sees Record Traffic After NSA PRISM Scandal

#109

They run a tor exit enclave which is really, really, cool; there is a blog post about it here: http://www.gabrielweinberg.com/blog/2010/08/duckduckgo-now-o... One motivation for switching: they have lots of "gadgets" like Google, and will take suggestions and/or apparently let you develop new ones. Here is a cool example: https://duckduckgo.com/goodies#Programming/crontab_0_0______... Another useful feature: https://…

Everytime I don't get the results I want through DDG (which happens rarely) I just type !sp + searchterm into my search bar and it searches via startpage.com, which uses googles search results without my IP address or searches being recorded, no identifying or tracking cookies are used and SSL encryption is set by default.

Re: DuckDuckGo Sees Record Traffic After NSA PRISM Scandal

#110
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the parent commenter: the fact that "don't be evil" was adopted suggests strongly that there is a motivation to be evil that needed to be overcome (and that users could identify with). The company storytelling that goes along with the slogan doesn't matter, and nor does it matter that it's intended mainly as a jab at competitors in the same industry .

Any company, person or organization has the potential to be evil. That's a truism that doesn't bring any value to the conversation.

It's not a 0-1 thing, there are degrees of attraction towards "evil". The guard in a concentration camp has more tendency towards evil than the guard in, say, a factory or residential building.

As Buchheit[1] himself said: "It’s also a bit of a jab at a lot of the other companies, especially our competitors, who at the time, in our opinion, were kind of exploiting the users to some extent." (emphasis mine)

Realizing that your competitors, i.e. firms you acknowledge as being in the same industry, are "kind of exploiting the users" seems to me not far from realizing that your very industry has a tendency towards that.

I think "Don't be evil" is an honest expression of the early confidence and idealism of the founders and core team of Google. However, in the last few years, as with America at large, something seems to have changed at Google. Personally, I tend to steer more and more away from it.

If they truly wanted to avoid evil and, perhaps more important, the potential for future evil, they would anonymize all observations to make, say, search per se better (as opposed to expressly attributing data so as to "personalize" it). That, incidentally, would also make Google immune to NSA bullying. Much like Apple, they could just say: We don't even store this kind of data, sorry guys, look somewhere else. At the rate with which they collect data points and with which hardware, algos, and science advance, it will be possible in a few years to do fine-grained psychological profiling on a massive scale, with all the possibilities of evil I can imagine. It's a fine line between prediction and control in social systems. And we all know that what is technically possible eventually will be tried by someone. It's not hard to think of scenarios.

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[1] http://blogoscoped.com/archive/2007-07-16-n55.html

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