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NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Education in America

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Re: NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Education in America

#21

Post by joonix »

obstacle1 wrote: post #11
joonix wrote: post #7

NYU is a school for rich kids. It's a vacation for students who want college fun, but prefer it to be in an urban setting like NYC (and the best part of NY, to be sure), rather than in a small college town with its frat parties and beer pong. IMO, it's not the ideal place to study at all. Too many distractions. If you're a liberal arts student you can probably take advantage of all the events, museums, intellectual s…

>NYU is a school for rich kids Eh... Maybe at the undergraduate level. NYU has some extremely strong graduate programs and surely most grad students there are not rich vacationers.

I'm clearly referring to undergraduate education. People with solid state school options shouldn't choose NYU unless they are rich. You'd be a fool to give up in-state @ Univ of Texas undergrad for NYU, for example.

Re: NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Education in America

#22

Post by fantnn »

interestinecom wrote: post #14
fantnn wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you've dropped out?

Then you repay the amount of money you took off the Government. I don't understand how that's even a question?

10 years @15% if you've graduated is biased towards people with shit degrees is all I'm saying

Re: NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Education in America

#23

Post by [deleted] »

interestinecom wrote: post #13
mtsmith85 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you go to NYU, or are you just out to insult those who did? I went to NYU. I credit it with developing a lot of the skills that have gotten me to where I am today. This comes with a very clear understanding that my degree, while not directly related to what I do for a living, is still hugely useful in my day-to-day life. I have a substantial amount of debt; most college kids do, anyhow. I credit NYU with giving m…

All that money and you still suck at grammar.

[deleted]

Re: NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Education in America

#24

Post by brown9-2 »

joonix wrote: post #7

NYU is a school for rich kids. It's a vacation for students who want college fun, but prefer it to be in an urban setting like NYC (and the best part of NY, to be sure), rather than in a small college town with its frat parties and beer pong. IMO, it's not the ideal place to study at all. Too many distractions. If you're a liberal arts student you can probably take advantage of all the events, museums, intellectual s…

You are correct about people that don't correctly judge what the tuition and loans will cost them at the end of their four years, but saying it is a school "for rich kids" is very far off.

I happened to receive a very generous grant to attend to offset my tuition. So do many others.

Re: NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Education in America

#25

Post by brown9-2 »

mseebach wrote: post #18
rossjudson wrote: post #9

Any government backed student loan should have a simple repayment schedule -- a maximum of 15% of your earnings for 10 years following graduation. At the end of 10 years, the loan is considered fully paid and any balance, if remaining, forgiven. The institution eats the cost of forgiving the balance. So if you're an institution providing an expensive but worthless education, you aren't going to get paid for it. Let's…

Even simpler: Don't have the government involved in student loans at all, and let the market price loans for different degrees for different students freely. Those institutions that can convince lenders that graduates will be in a position to pay back the loans quickly will be able to offer lower rates to students, and thus attract more and better students. Those out to study degrees that don't offer great employment…

Those institutions that can convince lenders that graduates will be in a position to pay back the loans quickly will be able to offer lower rates to students, and thus attract more and better students.

This assumes that a lender's primary interest is in having a loan repaid quickly. I don't think it's true - they are in it to make a profit, and exploiting the young adult with penalties and hidden fees or tricks helps expand that profit.

Re: NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Education in America

#26

Post by xiaoma »

mseebach wrote: post #18
rossjudson wrote: post #9

Any government backed student loan should have a simple repayment schedule -- a maximum of 15% of your earnings for 10 years following graduation. At the end of 10 years, the loan is considered fully paid and any balance, if remaining, forgiven. The institution eats the cost of forgiving the balance. So if you're an institution providing an expensive but worthless education, you aren't going to get paid for it. Let's…

Even simpler: Don't have the government involved in student loans at all, and let the market price loans for different degrees for different students freely. Those institutions that can convince lenders that graduates will be in a position to pay back the loans quickly will be able to offer lower rates to students, and thus attract more and better students. Those out to study degrees that don't offer great employment…

That's simpler, but worse. Education is a text-book example of a good with positive externalities and it's worth subsidizing, especially for poorer people.

Re: NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Education in America

#27

Post by mseebach »

brown9-2 wrote: post #25
mseebach wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even simpler: Don't have the government involved in student loans at all, and let the market price loans for different degrees for different students freely. Those institutions that can convince lenders that graduates will be in a position to pay back the loans quickly will be able to offer lower rates to students, and thus attract more and better students. Those out to study degrees that don't offer great employment…

Those institutions that can convince lenders that graduates will be in a position to pay back the loans quickly will be able to offer lower rates to students, and thus attract more and better students. This assumes that a lender's primary interest is in having a loan repaid quickly. I don't think it's true - they are in it to make a profit, and exploiting the young adult with penalties and hidden fees or tricks helps…

No, true, they won't care about the speed. But they will care about the default rate - and the ability to pay the debt down faster correlates strongly with a lower risk of default.

Re: NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Education in America

#28

Post by _delirium »

rayiner wrote: post #8

As a general rule, I think there is an counter-productive reaction among people to the idea of paying high salaries to people working in non-profits. At the end of the day, good people are willing to take a pay cut to work at an organization they perceive to be socially beneficial, but only so much of one. Their kids still have to go to college, after all. And if the organization can raise the money, why object to it…

I'm not sure paying higher salaries actually brings in better people in all cases, though. University administration has seen a big influx of people who are in it for the money over the past 20 years, the kinds of people who 50 years ago would've stayed in industry. Now you can land a $300k+ academic job, so it's seen as a potential stop on the VP/consulting/management/etc. circuit to take some kind of top role at a university for a few years— rather than being seen as a senior academic position, with a higher but still modest salary. And that has further knock-on effects in that the top ranks of academia tend to have very corporate rather than research/education-oriented cultural backgrounds, and self-servingly think of administration as the most important part of the university.

Re: NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Education in America

#29

Post by justinbeaver »

joonix wrote: post #7

NYU is a school for rich kids. It's a vacation for students who want college fun, but prefer it to be in an urban setting like NYC (and the best part of NY, to be sure), rather than in a small college town with its frat parties and beer pong. IMO, it's not the ideal place to study at all. Too many distractions. If you're a liberal arts student you can probably take advantage of all the events, museums, intellectual s…

This comment is terrible. For one, it's purely anecdotal with no evidence to support the statement "NYU is a school for rich kids". Have you really seen the wealth distribution of these individuals? Second, that very same statement is an attacking one, attempting to paint all "rich kids" with one brush as people who like "luxurious four year vacations." Do all "rich kids" not like to work hard? And finally, is there any proof that NYU is really anything like a "luxurious four year vacation?" - at least as it compares to any other university?

Re: NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Education in America

#30

Post by rossjudson »

rayiner wrote: post #17
rossjudson wrote: post #9

Any government backed student loan should have a simple repayment schedule -- a maximum of 15% of your earnings for 10 years following graduation. At the end of 10 years, the loan is considered fully paid and any balance, if remaining, forgiven. The institution eats the cost of forgiving the balance. So if you're an institution providing an expensive but worthless education, you aren't going to get paid for it. Let's…

For all the hand-wringing, the current federal student loan system (under Obama's PAY-E program) has pretty sensible repayment terms. You pay a maximum of 10% of your earnings above 150% of the household poverty level (but no more than you would under an ordinary 10 year repayment plan), capitalized interest capped (over the lifetime of the loan) at 10% of the original principal, balance forgiven after 20 years. It's…

Good info. The problem I see with a cap is that it's one size fits all. I'd rather see a system where a school can charge higher rates if it is confident that its graduates will be able to repay those loans.

20 years just seems too long.

And the key point here is that when a balance is forgiven, the institution should bear the cost, not the government. Maybe that's already the case. Can you provide more detail?

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