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'I've Got Nothing to Hide' and Other Misunderstandings of Privacy [pdf]

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11–20 of 71 posts

Re: 'I've Got Nothing to Hide' and Other Misunderstandings of Privacy [pdf]

#11

So people are willing to tolerate the infinitesimal personal risk of an invasion of privacy by the government in order to diminish the infinitesimal personal risk of a terrorist attack. Not sure what all the fuss is about.

Well, the problem comes with how the government uses the data it has on you.

Say, for example, I have... 10,000 points of data about you. 10,000 HN posts + Facebook posts + Reddit posts, etc. You've said a lot during your Internet career.

I can take what you've written, and form a profile of you from these words. They're just words, you've done nothing wrong. Freedom of speech being what it is, and let's even say you haven't said anything particularly inflammatory. Nothing threatening, nothing dangerous - you're just an average guy.

Now, I take these words, and I compare them with words that other folks have said. Using some fancy technology, I can group you with people who say thinks kind of like what you say. Using this data, I can group everyone this way, into clouds.

And here's where things get sticky - I can use these clouds of people to look at folks who are "similar" to known terrorists. Folks who, themselves, have done nothing wrong, but who "look" similar to people I know are bad. Let's say, for some reason, you're grouped with someone who has known ties to I dunno... the militant branch of the KKK or whatever. Now you're suddenly interesting to the authorities, even if you've done literally nothing wrong. Or have you?

If you're grouped via my super special technology with a terrorist, maybe this puts you on a no-fly list. Maybe this gets your security clearance denied. Maybe you get "randomly" audited. World-ending? No. Completely unwarranted and totally annoying? Yes.

On a philosophical level, this is all kinds of against the freedoms we expect to have in America, and that sucks but let's be more practical. People are screaming about the sky falling and the world ending because the NSA knows you like Japanese porn or whatever, but that's not frankly a big deal. What's more likely is that you're going to be annoyed and inconvenienced, and there's not a lot of reason for it.

It kind of sucks, and I guess you have to decide for yourself if you're okay with what might happen to someone if they turn out to be a false positive. For me, I don't so much mind the data collection, I just want it to be fully exposed. I want Google, Microsoft, et. al. to have to say publicly when they comply with a request for data, and in a perfect world, I'd want these companies to be required to notify the people whose data they hand over. Does it make it more difficult to catch bad guys? Yes. Does it provide a level of transparency that a representative democracy requires to function properly? Yes.

If they collect too much data (or too little!) I want to be able to vote someone out of office. Just saying, "attacks haven't happened so therefore what we're doing is working" isn't something I can buy. Is that too much to ask?

Re: 'I've Got Nothing to Hide' and Other Misunderstandings of Privacy [pdf]

#12
post #8
post #2

Strongly recommended by the libertarian law professor Glenn Reynolds, best known as the Instapundit link blogger, http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/170554/ : " It’s the #1 paper on SSRN for all-time downloads, and with good reason. "

Part of the "good reason" that it is the number one downloaded paper is "the rich get richer" phenomena[1][2] and that it is a paper that is related to online/internet legal scholarship. It is certainly a great paper but most downloaded paper is not a sign that it is the pinnacle of legal scholarship. A recent article about the most cited legal papers of all time had this to say: "With the proliferation of services a…

"..."

I guess all I can say is that you believe you have better insight into the mind of Glenn Reynolds than e.g. I do.

Re: 'I've Got Nothing to Hide' and Other Misunderstandings of Privacy [pdf]

#13
post #3

Requires registration to download the paper... Mirror: http://tehlug.org/files/solove.pdf

Echoing vollmond, SSRN may have asked me years ago to register, but I haven't had to for a very long time.

Perhaps they're trying to deal with people who try to game the download counts without cleverness, and somehow you got caught up in that mechanism???

Re: 'I've Got Nothing to Hide' and Other Misunderstandings of Privacy [pdf]

#15

So people are willing to tolerate the infinitesimal personal risk of an invasion of privacy by the government in order to diminish the infinitesimal personal risk of a terrorist attack. Not sure what all the fuss is about.

Well, the problem comes with how the government uses the data it has on you. Say, for example, I have... 10,000 points of data about you. 10,000 HN posts + Facebook posts + Reddit posts, etc. You've said a lot during your Internet career. I can take what you've written, and form a profile of you from these words. They're just words, you've done nothing wrong. Freedom of speech being what it is, and let's even say you…

Another thing that bothers the CRAP out of me is that now I feel like I can't say how I feel with friends because I know government is monitoring me. Its not that I am a terrorist or criminal, but this feels /exactly/ like I'm living in some unfree communist piece of shit country where you cannot speak how you feel without facing scrutiny from informants or stasi style police; UNLESS its in the comfort of your four walls with your close family and friends. This is tyranny, make no mistake about it.

Re: 'I've Got Nothing to Hide' and Other Misunderstandings of Privacy [pdf]

#16

So people are willing to tolerate the infinitesimal personal risk of an invasion of privacy by the government in order to diminish the infinitesimal personal risk of a terrorist attack. Not sure what all the fuss is about.

It is not only about people buying sense of safety at the expense of privacy and it's obvious problems due to shifting powers and vastly greater opportunities for abuse with decreased chance of ever being caught of such abuse.

It is about the faulty argument that the "nothing to hide" argument and it's various mutations are, as the paper argues. One of the problematic parts is that the faultiness of the said arguments aren't very obvious on an individual basis. Although the argument for "stopping 9/11 ever happening again"(or any other "fight terrorism" argument) is to "save lives", which inherently subjects to "any (American) lives", the "nothing to hide" argument acts on an individual basis unlike the argument about terrorism and saving lives which acts on a collective basis.

Because the "nothing to hide" arguments acts on an individual basis, it can be interpreted as "whatever as long as it doesn't happen to me" type of argument, yet it is used to argue for a collective matter.

If it were about the lives, banning alcohol would save tens of thousands of lives annually(assuming that "banning alcohol" would result in zero alcohol consumption, which is false, but brings out the point and even argued hypocricy regarding the "fighting terrorism" argument).

Re: 'I've Got Nothing to Hide' and Other Misunderstandings of Privacy [pdf]

#17

"Give me six lines written by the most honorable of men, and I will find an excuse in them to hang him." -- Cardinal Richelieu

Do you know where that quote is from? Everything I saw seems to indicate it is from 3 musketeers but I could not find it in the project gutenberg edition or the wikisource version

Re: 'I've Got Nothing to Hide' and Other Misunderstandings of Privacy [pdf]

#18
post #12
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the "good reason" that it is the number one downloaded paper is "the rich get richer" phenomena[1][2] and that it is a paper that is related to online/internet legal scholarship. It is certainly a great paper but most downloaded paper is not a sign that it is the pinnacle of legal scholarship. A recent article about the most cited legal papers of all time had this to say: "With the proliferation of services a…

"..." I guess all I can say is that you believe you have better insight into the mind of Glenn Reynolds than e.g. I do.

My use of an ellipsis was to indicate that I cut some material from the quote. I do not understand why you quoted "..." My comment had to do with the reason why it is the number one downloaded paper.

Re: 'I've Got Nothing to Hide' and Other Misunderstandings of Privacy [pdf]

#19
"Privacy, then, is not the trumpeting of the individual against society’s interests, but the protection of the individual based on society’s own norms and values."

Was it intended to be "Privacy, then, is not the trumpeting of the individual against society’s interests, but the protection of the individual FROM society’s own norms and values."?

I want to make sure I'm understanding the concept. The original means to me that the individual is protected by the norms and values of society. The revised version means the individual is protected from society's norms and values. It seems like both should be true.

Re: 'I've Got Nothing to Hide' and Other Misunderstandings of Privacy [pdf]

#20

"Give me six lines written by the most honorable of men, and I will find an excuse in them to hang him." -- Cardinal Richelieu

This is a huge problem with a surveillance state. Everyone has something which you can use against them. This means that if you piss off wrong people you're going to jail. Otherwise not. Possible implications to politic balance are astounding.
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