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Prominent Scientists Sign Declaration that Animals have Conscious Awareness

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Re: Prominent Scientists Sign Declaration that Animals have Conscious Awareness

#41

Post by lifeisstillgood »

verroq wrote: post #31
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it programmed into us? If not how do we feel it? If it is programmed in, can it be re-written?

Humans adapt to the moral system of their society. There is no set of "universal morals" that all humans have. But do realise this, since I'm not a moral relativity apologist. I'm going to say that moral systems are not equal and some backward societies need to get their systems fixed.

Have you read the god delusion by Dawkins? There he takes on just that myth - there has been a very good body of research in presenting people with the same set of moral conundrums - every race and culture, even "primitive" have indistinguishable moral responses. (Obviously individual variance was high)

Worth a read.

Re: Prominent Scientists Sign Declaration that Animals have Conscious Awareness

#42

Post by ggreer »

If I had to wager money on what future societies would condemn us for, I'd bet a lot on our treatment of animals.

Even if other highly-encephalized animals aren't conscious, they are still open to a wide range of experiences that we can empathize with. They can learn and play. They feel hunger and pain. Some species can even form friendships and mourn the passing of their kin.

Despite all indications that our treatment of these creatures is reprehensible, cultural inertia and the tastiness of meat are enough to prevent us from changing our behavior. To treat even 1% of humans the way we treat animals would be to perpetuate the greatest war crime in history. But do the same thing to some funny-looking microencephalitic relatives of humans and hardly anyone bats an eye.

Re: Prominent Scientists Sign Declaration that Animals have Conscious Awareness

#43

Post by tehwalrus »

ggreer wrote: post #42

If I had to wager money on what future societies would condemn us for, I'd bet a lot on our treatment of animals. Even if other highly-encephalized animals aren't conscious, they are still open to a wide range of experiences that we can empathize with. They can learn and play. They feel hunger and pain. Some species can even form friendships and mourn the passing of their kin. Despite all indications that our treatme…

Plenty of us commit hideous crimes on humans, too (North Korea, I'm looking at you,) so it may not be their only criticism of us.

I do agree though, and this is why I've been a vegetarian for 10 years now.

Re: Prominent Scientists Sign Declaration that Animals have Conscious Awareness

#46

Post by aet »

stephengillie wrote: post #44
cdooh wrote: post #3

Does this mean they know right from wrong? The article isn't very clear on what conscious awareness means.

Right and wrong are subjective to humans.

That being said, some people argue that there exist "objective moral values"

Re: Prominent Scientists Sign Declaration that Animals have Conscious Awareness

#48

Post by loceng »

tehwalrus wrote: post #43
ggreer wrote: post #42

If I had to wager money on what future societies would condemn us for, I'd bet a lot on our treatment of animals. Even if other highly-encephalized animals aren't conscious, they are still open to a wide range of experiences that we can empathize with. They can learn and play. They feel hunger and pain. Some species can even form friendships and mourn the passing of their kin. Despite all indications that our treatme…

Plenty of us commit hideous crimes on humans, too (North Korea, I'm looking at you,) so it may not be their only criticism of us. I do agree though, and this is why I've been a vegetarian for 10 years now.

What about the U.S.? Just because people are disconnected from the actions of their military doesn't mean they're not responsible
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