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Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

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Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#301

Post by jlgreco »

jessaustin wrote: post #282
Kylekramer wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't fair that activists are held to higher standard, but it is true. If you want to change the world, the world expects more of you. This isn't new. Occupy Wall Street may have had a point, but they allowed themselves to be marginalized due to more superficial aspects of the movement. If Snowden had been "crucified on a hill near Washington" (or even just stayed anonymous), it wouldn't have ended the NSA's spyin…

It may be too early to dismiss Occupy as having been "marginalized". Sure they're not camped out anymore, but camping was never really one of their top priorities. Who can say that the example of Occupy didn't inspire Snowden to a degree?

Anyone who isn't involved in Occupy just writes them off as a bunch of drum-banging hippies who don't bath frequently enough. Even those who would normally be receptive to what they have to say.

I'd say the media is to blame, but the act of camping was probably the real problem.

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#302

Post by glurgh »

gbog wrote: post #252
glurgh wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it not easy? For every Ai Weiwei whose fame gives him some protection (and who still ends up getting harassed and put under house arrest) there are many Li Wangyangs http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/09/world/asia/chinese-activis... They don't seem to have had much trouble at all keeping him in jail for 22 years from where he probably didn't get to do a lot of public dissenting.

What I meant is that, against the cliche, Chinese people are not easy to control, because they have a very long experience gaming the rules and enjoy this sport. In this sense they resemble the French more than the Japanese.

Is this a cliche you've actually encountered? I have a hard time imagining anyone actually believes such a ridiculous generalization. Although if you worry about such things, you probably want to give a second thought about how you generalize about others, be they French or Japanese.

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#303

Post by scarmig »

rhizome wrote: post #272
adventured wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taiwan Would that do? Yep, I think it would. Perhaps even just the substantial delay of new arms sales. It's meant as a black and white example, but it proves my point. There are countless things the US could give China that are worth a lot more to China than Snowden is. Your comment is comical in its lack of realism. And that's comical because you're alluding to me being the unrealistic one. In reality, politics is…

If it's that simple, you'll have no trouble coming up with historical examples of the mechanism you describe having operated with the simplicity you assert.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percentages_agreement

Or, if that doesn't suit your fancy, any of the WWII dealings among the Allies about how things would be divied up.

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#304

Post by gbog »

glurgh wrote: post #302
gbog wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I meant is that, against the cliche, Chinese people are not easy to control, because they have a very long experience gaming the rules and enjoy this sport. In this sense they resemble the French more than the Japanese.

Is this a cliche you've actually encountered? I have a hard time imagining anyone actually believes such a ridiculous generalization. Although if you worry about such things, you probably want to give a second thought about how you generalize about others, be they French or Japanese.

You know, "thinking" is usually done by analysis and synthesis, both movements together. And synthesis is just another name for generalization. I think it is a relevant generalization to state that French people have had in their history a bunch of struggles, which make them more sensitive to the topic than other people.

Another cultural traits: Chinese men are more shy than, say, male US citizen. I have lived in China 10 years, I don't see how anyone could deny this.

And yes, I have met the cliche of the Chinese being "easy to control" a lot of time.

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#305

Post by Ygg2 »

anigbrowl wrote: post #292
Ygg2 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, history hasn't been my strong side, but I don't see how Watergate is relevant? The difference in technology (between now and then) is huge, since our lives have migrated more towards the Internet. Before the wiretapping could only go so far. You needed to install wiretapping in a room (phones could always be bugged). Now wiretapping is everywhere. You literally carry the equipment for others to wiretap you (mob…

'Wiretapping' means bugging your phone, by definition. You tap into the phone wire .

Ok, semantics error. I switched the meaning of bugging/wiretapping the room. I can't edit the message.

The point is the same, you actually carry around tools that allows others to spy on you (this wasn't the case before). Happy?

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#306

Post by contingencies »

sporkologist wrote: post #218
contingencies wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Logging on to GSM your phone uploads its IMEI ('phone serial number') with the SIM card identifier or IMSI ('sim ID'). So if you switch, you are still tracked. Budding spies will learn their tech before putting their ass on the line.

As mentioned further up these comments, IMEI's can be forged, and phones produced "off-hours" in the factories often have IMEI's consisting of all 0's or all 1's. I gleaned this much just from reading this thread.

Sure. Also, according to recent quotes from Snowden, this is the primary mobile communciations key the NSA maintain records and search by... not phone number.

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#307

Post by mhartl »

gbog wrote: post #84
jsnk wrote: post #8

Fourth point about Hong Kong being under China probably has a significant effect that public cannot know about to full extent. It's not a outright conspiracy to believe that there's a largely hidden but real power struggle between US and China. China probably likes the fact that Snowden has brought NSA and US government into public scrutiny and they are probably plotting a way to make the best out of it.

I don't think so. China has so many problems, it's government always preferred the status quo, anything new like this is considered a threat to political stability: imagine if a few Chinese decided to go Snowden way?

*its government

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#308

Post by dnr »

The question I've been wondering about is how he'll get money to live on. Presumably it won't be long before the US will freeze his bank accounts, if they haven't already.

Has he set up offshore bank accounts in advance? Won't they get frozen too?

Is he planning on working in HK? He probably doesn't have a visa that allows working, and switching visas usually requires leaving the country. He's too well-known now to work under the table.

Did he carry huge amounts of cash?

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#309

Post by dnr »

gbog wrote: post #139
adventured wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China can and does easily suppress dissent. They love opportunities to jab back at the US regarding human rights issues. That's worth a lot more than the very very very small risk that Snowden presents toward inspiring emulators.

> China can and does easily suppress dissent. Why do you feel the need to add "easily"? It is not easy at all. Some dissident like the artist Ai Weiwei recently are playing all the time with the sensitive nerves of the regime but he managed to make himself famous enough, and to never crosses the red line too far as to get "suppressed". For instance, there is this picture of him giving the finger to Mao in Tiananmen s…

Ai Weiwei who was disappeared for three months and reportedly subject to psychological torture? And he's the one who should be protected most by his international fame.

Edit: You may be right that it's not "easy": I'm sure it costs billions and billions of RMB a year. But they've had a lot of success at it.

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#310

Post by kragen »

notahacker wrote: post #294
kragen wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Sweden frequently issue international arrest warrants for rape suspects?

Yes. What sort of weird country doesn't issue international arrest warrants for rape subjects just because they're a political figure?

Do you have any cases in mind? I think it would be awesome if the world worked the way you say, but I don't think it does.
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