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Get Rid of the App Store’s “Top” Lists

marco.org

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Re: Get Rid of the App Store’s “Top” Lists

#41

Post by spaghetti »

I have a few thoughts on this in no particular order:

- It would be interesting if the top list gaming mentioned in the article was eliminated by replacing download or install count with something more meaningful like "frequency of app open" or "average time spent in the app per day". These can still be gamed but it's harder than just gaming a metric that relies only on download or install count.

- There should still be some sort of collaborative filtering. I favor improving the top list's ranking algorithm over getting rid of the top list.

- Giving new apps more chance to succeed or exposure could be implemented similar to how HN includes job postings. Namely the listing is put in the top spot of "the list" for a bit and slowly falls down. In the app store the new app should probably fall rapidly unless user-engagement is high. How to measure that? Download count is too easy to game so other metrics would need to be used.

- I think developers should be mindful that they're selling to (in general) everyone and not just other developers. When Marco mentions "high-quality" apps he's speaking from a developer's perspective. And developers often care a lot about details that the general public doesn't notice or doesn't care about if they do notice.

- The app store should be faster. The iTunes load time feels too long these days.

Re: Get Rid of the App Store’s “Top” Lists

#42

Post by Ologn »

runjake wrote: post #11
Kylekramer wrote: post #4

Seems to be blaming a lot of ills of the App Store that are larger or unrelated than the top list to the top list. Rich get richer is just the nature of the beast in capitalism. The rock bottom prices are more due to the elasticity of price of phone apps compared to many products. After all, you have prominently reported top lists for movies/games/music for decades and they certainly aren't getting cheaper. Top lists…

He may be trolling, but its probably not far from the truth. Other than releasing the Android source, Google doesn't really play any part in most Android devices on the market. Further, their store is plagued with malware and shady apps that never get removed. I know because I've reported them and continue to see the same apps by the same developers on the Play Store. On the manufacturer's side, they rush out devices…

> Further, their store is plagued with malware and shady apps that never get removed. I know because I've reported them and continue to see the same apps by the same developers on the Play Store.

I often read the Reddit Android and Android developer subrredits. Sometimes someone points out some sketchy malware in a post that they reported. Maybe other people report it as well. If the app (and often the developer) are still there two hours later, that's a long time. Usually Google kills it within minutes. Usually these are fake things (say "Call of Duty for Android" by "Acme Inc.") which needs a dozen permissions and are obviously probably BS.

As I said, probably multiple people are flagging the malware which people on Reddit are discussing, so maybe that is why Google responds to them but is not as responsive to your messages.

Re: Get Rid of the App Store’s “Top” Lists

#43

Post by Sealy »

I think 'top' lists have their purpose but with the addition of a 'time decay' factored in. A perfect analogy is the Hacker News front page to rank trending stories. Over time, the posts will drop down the list based upon a combination of both popularity and how long it has been there.

This would keep the top list 'fresh'.

Re: Get Rid of the App Store’s “Top” Lists

#44

Post by tolmasky »

Here's an idea: show me the top lists without the apps I already own! Why do I need to see Mountain Lion at the top of the App Store constantly in the #1 position? Just so I can know how little Mac Software gets sold and completely dissuade me from ever considering writing Mac software again? EIGHT of the top 10 apps are Apple apps. Most of which people probably already own (I happen to own all of them). Is this the image of the app store they want? If you really want to compell people to download Mountain Lion, just make it a banner at the top of the store that shows up if you don't have it!

The same applies to the iOS App store though. After I owned Angry Birds, why on Earth did I have to look at it as #1 for years? Showing a top 10 with apps you already own filtered out is good for everyone. The top selling apps still show up for new users. After its purchased, it gives other apps a chance to percolate up, which means more sales for everyone, and more 30% cuts for Apple.

EDIT: I'd like to point out that the OP's reference to a purely "editorial" list has the exact same problem. I don't understand why the Apple ecosystem seems hell bent on refusing to take advantage of the digital age. Creating a one-size fits all top 10 list, or editorial list, is a fine strategy for a brick and mortar store where they have to show everyone the same thing at the front of their store. And mind you, this is the absolute easiest online market place feature you can possibly program: don't show me what I already own and thus am literally incapable of repurchasing.

Re: Get Rid of the App Store’s “Top” Lists

#45

Post by soapdog »

tolmasky wrote: post #44

Here's an idea: show me the top lists without the apps I already own! Why do I need to see Mountain Lion at the top of the App Store constantly in the #1 position? Just so I can know how little Mac Software gets sold and completely dissuade me from ever considering writing Mac software again? EIGHT of the top 10 apps are Apple apps. Most of which people probably already own (I happen to own all of them). Is this the…

I like this idea!

Re: Get Rid of the App Store’s “Top” Lists

#46

Post by brianwillis »

tolmasky wrote: post #44

Here's an idea: show me the top lists without the apps I already own! Why do I need to see Mountain Lion at the top of the App Store constantly in the #1 position? Just so I can know how little Mac Software gets sold and completely dissuade me from ever considering writing Mac software again? EIGHT of the top 10 apps are Apple apps. Most of which people probably already own (I happen to own all of them). Is this the…

You might find the genius lists go some of the way toward solving this problem for you. They try show things you're likely to be interested in, and don't show stuff you already own.

Re: Get Rid of the App Store’s “Top” Lists

#47

Post by briandilley »

what makes you think that the criteria for "top" is actual based in reviews? it may or may not be, but a smart thing to do would be to base it on another pre calculated score. something like the formula that reddit uses would work good because it degrades over time. that said, I'm willing to bet that apple cooks that list based on a number of factors.

Re: Get Rid of the App Store’s “Top” Lists

#49

Post by diziet »

gfodor wrote: post #10
pflats wrote: post #9

I'd argue that the biggest issue is simply that the App Store interface is terrible, and that results load far too slowly. The prominence of the Top List is only a symptom of that. Suppose you were at at a new bookstore, and each table of books was in its own little room, each isolated from the next. Once you think you want something, you have to unlock the book's acrylic case to take it out and read the dust jacket.…

It's stunning to me how the App Store has so many downloads and so much revenue and yet still is such a huge piece of trash. It needs to be much faster. It needs to be more engaging. The search needs to be improved. The taxonomy needs a massive overhaul. Users need to be more encouraged to review apps and the review process itself needs to be overhauled. App sellers need to be able to perform legit SEO on their keywo…

This is part of the reason I'd started Sensor Tower, as the app store is very hard to succeed in from the developer's perspective.

Re: Get Rid of the App Store’s “Top” Lists

#50

Post by melling »

brianwillis wrote: post #46
tolmasky wrote: post #44

Here's an idea: show me the top lists without the apps I already own! Why do I need to see Mountain Lion at the top of the App Store constantly in the #1 position? Just so I can know how little Mac Software gets sold and completely dissuade me from ever considering writing Mac software again? EIGHT of the top 10 apps are Apple apps. Most of which people probably already own (I happen to own all of them). Is this the…

You might find the genius lists go some of the way toward solving this problem for you. They try show things you're likely to be interested in, and don't show stuff you already own.

Now if you could only remind the 500 million other iOS users. Discovery needs to be better. Most people aren't going to dig.

If my girlfriend wants an app that she's heard about, I've got to install it for her. Guess who updates the apps on her phone? :-(

It's gotta be real easy for most people.

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