Get Rid of the App Store’s “Top” Lists • Hacker News Board

Re: Get Rid of the App Store’s “Top” Lists

#31

Post by kunle » Tue, Jun 18, 2013, 2:01 AM UTC

Probably the right answer is some combination of

- editorial (although this can be gamed in a different way - a bunch of PR/marketing folks with strong relationships with Apple employees would suffice),

- reviews/ratings (also gameable)

- some algo for how long users continue to own/open/use an app after they download it (almost impossible to game, because it's linked to fundamental use).

With this combo - the rich will still get richer, but at least they will continue to be quality.

Re: Get Rid of the App Store’s “Top” Lists

#32

Post by adventured » Tue, Jun 18, 2013, 2:01 AM UTC

I find myself agreeing at a basic level with these arguments (which have been around as long as such lists have).

However, I've yet to see anybody back up their emotion-driven claims with enough facts and data to actually make a conclusive argument (ie to prove their position).

Over and over and over again these types of posts / articles pop-up, and say things just like this: "It encourages shallow, least-common-denominator apps with rock-bottom prices" --- and proceed to not actually provide any data. A single subjective statement isn't good enough.

My point is, from a subjective / emotional / weak-on-data standpoint I agree. I don't regard that as a valid argument for change however, as this is a big deal for the apps business. Bring the truck-load of data with you next time (and every time you make such arguments) and let's really end the discussion once and for all. I've seen various relevant clips of data floating around, with a narrow focus; I have to believe someone could put together a comprehensive, overwhelming data-based argument if these claims are in fact true.

Re: Get Rid of the App Store’s “Top” Lists

#33

Post by gfodor » Tue, Jun 18, 2013, 2:02 AM UTC

hayksaakian wrote: post #28

gfodor wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's stunning to me how the App Store has so many downloads and so much revenue and yet still is such a huge piece of trash. It needs to be much faster. It needs to be more engaging. The search needs to be improved. The taxonomy needs a massive overhaul. Users need to be more encouraged to review apps and the review process itself needs to be overhauled. App sellers need to be able to perform legit SEO on their keywo…

> It's probably the biggest example I can think of where Apple really shows that they are unquestionably not Google. I think you give Google too much credit. The Play store is about as abysmal, sans the OS-tied updates. (Search, lists, SEO, etc. are BAD).

I wasn't comparing them in terms of app stores per se but the fact they don't really seem to be aggressively optimizing the UX on the store the way Google does with most of its (other) products. If Apple were doing it right, after this much time and this much data had been collected the App Store should basically be fast as hell and reading my mind when I log in, like Amazon does.

I worked at Etsy for a number of years which has many similar attributes as the App Store, and lots of slow, steady progress was made by running many experiments and aggressively maintaining performance. I'd be licking my chops at the low hanging fruit if I were the one tasked with starting to hill-climb the App Store UX. There are so many things you could try, and with the type of traffic the App Store gets, 1% experiments could almost certainly get you sufficient data to really drive up conversion rates without negatively impacting many users along the way.

Re: Get Rid of the App Store’s “Top” Lists

#34

Post by xentronium » Tue, Jun 18, 2013, 2:09 AM UTC

seeingfurther wrote: post #20

Apple should create a new category for 1 year. App stores for apps. The best one at the end of the year becomes the official app store.

> The best one at the end of the year becomes the official app store.

The best one defined as top 1 in app stores for apps category? :-)

Re: Get Rid of the App Store’s “Top” Lists

#35

Post by bodegajed » Tue, Jun 18, 2013, 2:13 AM UTC

hayksaakian wrote: post #26

Lists are pointless, all we need is good search. That's why the Web works - search is a solved problem. Search on app stores is archaic and abysmal -- you'd think Google could solve this kind of problem.

Yeah having almost 700,000 apps in the app store. A search engine would definitely help.

How about spiders for apps. I mean they can look for high page rank sites that links to an app for example. they can then score these based from the inbound links.

Re: Get Rid of the App Store’s “Top” Lists

#36

Post by gurupanguji » Tue, Jun 18, 2013, 2:14 AM UTC

> It’s a lot like the Android market. Nobody — not Google, not the manufacturers, and certainly not the carriers — gives a shit if you hate your Android phone or put that cheap tablet in a drawer after a month. They’re optimizing for “top” lists, so they compete on price, flashiness, and huge retail incentives, usually at the expense of quality and long-term satisfaction.

I don't get how or why Apple cares about users using their product more than Google. Because they provide support? Apple support for iTunes is terrible. Try getting a refund for an accidental buy by someone else.

However, we do have a case in point -- Instapaper on Android. I plunked my money when it came about thinking that it was going to be a great experience. A couple minor updates and Marco didn't care less about the pain it was. He played his self fulfilling statement for sure.

These random Google and Android are because they don't give a(n) statements are unbecoming and disappointing. =(

Re: Get Rid of the App Store’s “Top” Lists

#37

Post by Steko » Tue, Jun 18, 2013, 2:15 AM UTC

The alternatives presented are either not easy or not very compelling, especially given that they would reduce Apple's income.

I'd be happy with a few more category levels. Exile the pay to win games to their own corner and hopefully introduce some sensible limits.

Re: Get Rid of the App Store’s “Top” Lists

#38

Post by ellicottvilleny » Tue, Jun 18, 2013, 2:19 AM UTC

Apple gives zero fucks about Developers. ZERO point ZERO ZERO ZERO ZERO ZERO fucks. Developers are part of their sweatshop app store that makes billions for apple. We paid over a billion dollars out to app developers, says Tim Cook. Yea, and most app-store developers are working for $0.002 an hour. Nice. Fuckers.

Re: Get Rid of the App Store’s “Top” Lists

#39

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jun 18, 2013, 2:24 AM UTC

afhof wrote: post #21

po wrote: post #16

I had the exact same observation but for another Apple app ecosystem: Game Center. I could not care less how I rank in the global rankings for an iPhone app. Do I care that some 10 kids or idiot savants have scored 100x higher than me? Not really. Maybe if I had actually joined a league or something I would like to know how I ranked globally but otherwise, that's not what you want to show people by default. There is…

Percentiles I think greatly help the appearance of rankings. Knowing you are in the top 95% vs. knowing you're a measly 2 standard deviations above the mean.

[deleted]

Re: Get Rid of the App Store’s “Top” Lists

#40

Post by inthewoods » Tue, Jun 18, 2013, 2:25 AM UTC

hayksaakian wrote: post #26

Lists are pointless, all we need is good search. That's why the Web works - search is a solved problem. Search on app stores is archaic and abysmal -- you'd think Google could solve this kind of problem.

^^^^ This. Apps are a great user experience but App stores really suck for discovery. And given that Google previously worked at solving this problem, you'd think they'd be all over it.