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Priced out of Paris

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Re: Priced out of Paris

#151

Post by Tiktaalik »

rdouble wrote: post #22
stevoski wrote: post #4

The article talks a lot about cities now being the domain only of "one-percenters" and "global elite". This is demonstrably false. Consider the UK. UK's population: 62 million London population: 8 million 13% of the UK's population, therefore, resides in London. To say that only the "1%" can afford London is clearly not the case. In France's case, 15% of the population live in Paris. Perhaps we can't all live in Lond…

The 1% buy multiple properties in many different cities. There have been articles about how the City of London has neighborhoods of empty luxury apartment developments owned by various sheikhs and russian/central asian commodities oligarchs. In SF when you buy a house you are also competing with dozens of investors from overseas paying cash who don't have any intention of ever living there. I believe that the Vancouv…

There's not a lot of solid data on what degree of Vancouver's housing speculators are overseas investors or local, but there is certainly is a lot of non-resident owners.

Non-resident occupancy approaches 24% in certain neighbourhoods of downtown, and these empty neighbourhoods are becoming ghost towns, an awful business environment for local retail.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/home-and-garden/real-est...

Re: Priced out of Paris

#152

Post by king_jester »

glenra wrote: post #82
ludoo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OMG a Le Corbusier nephew. Right, let's raze all historical cities, and build stell and glass cubes. And while we're at it, let's burn a few books and paintings too...

> Right, let's raze all historical cities, and build stell and glass cubes. If redevelopment were generally allowed in cities like Paris and New York some of ugliest, least unique buildings would tend to get replaced with something newer and possibly better. And fifty or a hundred years later some of those new buildings would themselves also be prized by preservationists. People HATED the Eiffel Tower when it was fir…

> If redevelopment were generally allowed in cities like Paris and New York some of ugliest, least unique buildings would tend to get replaced with something newer and possibly better. And fifty or a hundred years later some of those new buildings would themselves also be prized by preservationists.

This is completely unfounded. There is no guarantee that new construction would be more aesthetically pleasing and we've seen that new development has not brought down prices in New York City and that gentrification continues to get worse.

Re: Priced out of Paris

#153

Post by pdog »

JPKab wrote: post #56

My cousin is a .01%-er. My father's brother, due to a position of political power he held in the late 1970's, met and married a woman who is an heir to an American old-money family. (if i were to name them, you would know. If you listen to NPR for more than an hour, you will hear their name mentioned as a donor) The contrast is insane, since my entire family is Appalachian coal mining stock. She NEVER visits, so the…

Your cousin and her friends aren't parasites for delegating the management of their wealth to professionals. They'd be idiots not to get first-class lawyers, tax advisors, accountants, estate managers, and investment advisors to run their private wealth.

They don't "produce nothing". These professionals are investing their capital and the world is wealthier as a result.

Re: Priced out of Paris

#154

Post by rm999 »

pdog wrote: post #153
JPKab wrote: post #56

My cousin is a .01%-er. My father's brother, due to a position of political power he held in the late 1970's, met and married a woman who is an heir to an American old-money family. (if i were to name them, you would know. If you listen to NPR for more than an hour, you will hear their name mentioned as a donor) The contrast is insane, since my entire family is Appalachian coal mining stock. She NEVER visits, so the…

Your cousin and her friends aren't parasites for delegating the management of their wealth to professionals. They'd be idiots not to get first-class lawyers, tax advisors, accountants, estate managers, and investment advisors to run their private wealth. They don't "produce nothing". These professionals are investing their capital and the world is wealthier as a result.

They are parasites because they are spending money (that they didn't earn by producing anything) in an inefficient manner. That three floor apartment could house many people, instead it is wasting a very rare commodity in NYC: housing. I'd be much more sympathetic if she actually spent time in that apartment. She produces no wealth and destroys wealth through inefficiency - good use of the word "parasite".

Usually I'm the one who is defending the wealthy from unfair attacks online, but in this case I don't understand your argument.

Re: Priced out of Paris

#155

Post by leoc »

twic wrote: post #41
rdouble wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 1% buy multiple properties in many different cities. There have been articles about how the City of London has neighborhoods of empty luxury apartment developments owned by various sheikhs and russian/central asian commodities oligarchs. In SF when you buy a house you are also competing with dozens of investors from overseas paying cash who don't have any intention of ever living there. I believe that the Vancouv…

Nitpick: the City of London does not have neighborhoods of empty luxury apartment developments, because the City of London is the one square mile of the city where the financial industry lives. It's equivalent to the Financial District in New York. The only significant chunk of residential building is the Barbican, which is not empty, just awful. The name of the city as a whole is simply London. You could even call i…

England traditionally works on the rule that a city is a town with its own cathedral. London has several cathedrals, thus...

Re: Priced out of Paris

#156

Post by ef4 »

rayiner wrote: post #95
JPKab wrote: post #56

My cousin is a .01%-er. My father's brother, due to a position of political power he held in the late 1970's, met and married a woman who is an heir to an American old-money family. (if i were to name them, you would know. If you listen to NPR for more than an hour, you will hear their name mentioned as a donor) The contrast is insane, since my entire family is Appalachian coal mining stock. She NEVER visits, so the…

Bitcoin proponents: this is the world deflationary currencies lead to. All the wealth owned by a few, passed on from generation to generation. And you can even cut the investment bankers out of the loop, thanks to the risk free return on just keeping money under your mattress and the constantly falling prices.

It's much more accurate for me to point at the OP's story and say "this is the world that inflationary currency leads to". Because clearly we're living under inflationary currencies, and clearly wealth inequality is a big issue.

The rich aren't stupid. They own inflation-proof assets like real estate and stocks. It's the poor who get continually squeezed on their meager cash savings and hand-to-mouth wages. It's the poor who rent instead of own, who get burned by housing inflation.

We would have a much stronger middle class if it was possible to build a nest egg simply by putting money in the bank. Instead, everyone is pushed into much riskier investments in an effort to beat inflation, where unsophisticated investors are easy prey.

Re: Priced out of Paris

#157

Post by pdog »

rm999 wrote: post #154
pdog wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your cousin and her friends aren't parasites for delegating the management of their wealth to professionals. They'd be idiots not to get first-class lawyers, tax advisors, accountants, estate managers, and investment advisors to run their private wealth. They don't "produce nothing". These professionals are investing their capital and the world is wealthier as a result.

They are parasites because they are spending money (that they didn't earn by producing anything) in an inefficient manner. That three floor apartment could house many people, instead it is wasting a very rare commodity in NYC: housing. I'd be much more sympathetic if she actually spent time in that apartment. She produces no wealth and destroys wealth through inefficiency - good use of the word "parasite". Usually I'…

I understand and I'm sympathetic to what you're saying. It's a bit counterintuitive, but I'll try to elaborate more on the points you've made:

> They are parasites because they are spending money

Parasites are people who take from the system; she's contributing by putting money into it.

> (that they didn't earn by producing anything)

The source of her money is irrelevant to the question of how she should spend it. What difference does it make how she got it? One dollar is perfectly interchangeable with another, and the fungibility of money makes it one of the most neutral substances on earth.

> in an inefficient manner.

She's buying luxury properties, probably spending a token amount to fund her lifestyle, and letting professionals manage the rest. That's may be a pretty efficient allocation of capital for her situation.

> That three floor apartment could house many people, instead it is wasting a very rare commodity in NYC: housing.

Nowhere in Manhattan are there many people getting together to split a three-story penthouse apartment. Her properties are fundamentally different from a regular one- or two-bedroom apartment. This is difficult to articulate, but living in a penthouse in Manhattan isn't a right.

> I'd be much more sympathetic if she actually spent time in that apartment.

Again, why does it matter how she's using the apartments? If she owns more than a few luxury properties and it doesn't make sense to rent them out (to who?), then she necessarily is using them in an "inefficient" manner, since she can only be at one place at a time.

> She produces no wealth and destroys wealth through inefficiency - good use of the word "parasite".

Again, when she's spending "inefficiently", she's contributing to the system.

Re: Priced out of Paris

#158

Post by userulluipeste »

ef4 wrote: post #156
rayiner wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin proponents: this is the world deflationary currencies lead to. All the wealth owned by a few, passed on from generation to generation. And you can even cut the investment bankers out of the loop, thanks to the risk free return on just keeping money under your mattress and the constantly falling prices.

It's much more accurate for me to point at the OP's story and say "this is the world that inflationary currency leads to". Because clearly we're living under inflationary currencies, and clearly wealth inequality is a big issue. The rich aren't stupid. They own inflation-proof assets like real estate and stocks. It's the poor who get continually squeezed on their meager cash savings and hand-to-mouth wages. It's the…

"They own inflation-proof assets like real estate"

But such assets are taxable, and those spoiled rich people are probably paying, don't they?

Re: Priced out of Paris

#159

Post by jellicle »

parasight wrote: post #121
jjsz wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The old-money lifestyle is _designed_ to sit back, enjoy, and let the investment bankers handle the rest- exactly what she's doing so they're not parasites, they're living an elite's way of life. If you would get closer to her she would produce a lot of good times and memories. Just because you will travel, stay in the house and read more doesn't mean someone is going to sit down and become an inventor / iterator lik…

> There's no point of being envious and no point for me being an apologist but if it bothers you so much become one of her investment bankers. Envy is a thought-terminating cliché when it comes to criticizing the rich. I think it is possible to criticize this lifestyle without being envious.

It's not possible to criticize the ultra-rich (for any reason) without being accused of being envious, however. It is literally the first response you'll get on any forum: "You're just envious."
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