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Priced out of Paris

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Re: Priced out of Paris

#131

Post by Kurtz79 »

NatW wrote: post #61

I'm an American ruby/python developer living in Paris. The cost of living in Paris is comparable to living in New York City or San Francisco. In some ways it can be cheaper. You can find affordable places to live and work all over Paris, and you can find all kinds of ways to spend or save money in any city.

"The cost of living in Paris is comparable to living in New York City or San Francisco."

This means that Paris is a very expensive city, as the article was pointing out.

How would compare the salary for that kind of position beetween Paris and SF or NYC, BTW ?

Re: Priced out of Paris

#132

Post by Jacqued »

michaelochurch wrote: post #117
yardie wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The city planners did allow some unchecked redevelopment in the early 70s and 80s. Most of those buildings are still considered ugly and time hasn't made them any prettier, trust me. I wouldn't say it's the traditionalist but the the people have, collectively, have decided that they want a specific aesthetic and most of the buildings being proposed aren't it. The Forums Les Halles was erected in the 70s, the architec…

Most of those buildings are still considered ugly and time hasn't made them any prettier, trust me. Aesthetics are for the comfortable. I don't think most New Yorkers know (or care) what the exteriors of their buildings look like. I'd rather have ugly buildings and lower rent so I can save. Yes, I'm a dick because I care about my future more than whether bored rich people like the looks of the city. I live here, I wo…

The thing is, new constructions tend to make rents higher, because they are usually of higher standards than what they replace. Typically, a newly build building will sell flats at 14k€/m² where as the surroundings sell for 10k, because it is newer, more comfortable and consumes less electricity for heating. And rents go up accordingly.

Also, I think most people do care what their place looks like ; it's a combination of factors, but prettier buildings always sell for more, and inhabitants of prettier buildings tend to take better care of them.

I wouldn't want to live in (or next to) one of the terrible 60-70s condos at the limits of paris, unless rent was _at least_ 30% lower than in a more proper place.

Re: Priced out of Paris

#133

Post by carlob »

epsylon wrote: post #127
carlob wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I live just nearby Paris (in Issy-les-moulineaux) and I do vote for a mayor, just not the mayor of Paris. I also vote for a few local representatives (département, canton and région). Representation isn't a problem, since many projects are handled by the départements or région. I lived in Montrouge and in Le Kremlin-Bicêtre, so I know what I'm talking about. Look at all the trouble they ran into when they tried to…

I don't remember any specific issues about extending the Vélib outside Paris, but perhaps I didn't pay attention too much. Can you develop ? I don't thing centralizing things more than they are today would significantly improve the issues faced by the various neighbouring municipalities. Au contraire , I'm a proponent of decentralization.

I agree with the sentiment of excessive centralization in France. However what really is happening is that things are still centralized, only not everyone gets to vote for the mayor that makes the real decisions.

As far as the Vélib' affaire goes: it opened in July 2007 in Paris and they announced it was going to expand to the banlieue as soon as it started. However JCDecaux's main competitor Clear Channel claimed it was a new service and a new competitive tender was needed. The trial dragged on for 18 months, but eventually JCDecaux won and Vélib' was extended, but it wasn't finished before the end of 2009, two and a half years later than in Paris.

You can read more about it in the history section of the French wikipedia article.

Re: Priced out of Paris

#134

Post by rdouble »

michaelochurch wrote: post #117
yardie wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The city planners did allow some unchecked redevelopment in the early 70s and 80s. Most of those buildings are still considered ugly and time hasn't made them any prettier, trust me. I wouldn't say it's the traditionalist but the the people have, collectively, have decided that they want a specific aesthetic and most of the buildings being proposed aren't it. The Forums Les Halles was erected in the 70s, the architec…

Most of those buildings are still considered ugly and time hasn't made them any prettier, trust me. Aesthetics are for the comfortable. I don't think most New Yorkers know (or care) what the exteriors of their buildings look like. I'd rather have ugly buildings and lower rent so I can save. Yes, I'm a dick because I care about my future more than whether bored rich people like the looks of the city. I live here, I wo…

New York does build hideous 75 story apartment buildings and they don't bring down the rent.

Re: Priced out of Paris

#135

Post by jjsz »

JPKab wrote: post #94
jjsz wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The old-money lifestyle is _designed_ to sit back, enjoy, and let the investment bankers handle the rest- exactly what she's doing so they're not parasites, they're living an elite's way of life. If you would get closer to her she would produce a lot of good times and memories. Just because you will travel, stay in the house and read more doesn't mean someone is going to sit down and become an inventor / iterator lik…

1) I'm not envious, and somehow you take my disapproval of the elites wasting valuable space as envy. It is not. If I express disapproval at someone who dumps toxic waste in a river, do I envy them also? 2) Your comment made zero contribution to the conversation. Do you think I haven't hung out with my cousin and had a good time? I have. This changes nothing. Every person on the planet is capable of "producing good t…

In some type of way you're longing for her money to change the world. I hope, instead, you long to change her mind, convince her that she needs to start donating. That was the point of me commenting, for you to treat this as a reminder to call her and put your perspective down. Not in casual way, she won't take you seriously. Throw a form of guilt, cause obviously that's what she needs. Value your principles man. She's your cousin and she has the potential to change herself and the world. Understand that power. I wish one of my distant cousins were like this. Her elite world view would come down to Earth at least once a month. Don't take it the wrong way.

Re: Priced out of Paris

#136

Post by victorNicollet »

kiba wrote: post #3

Why is Paris really expensive? Constricted supply and high demand. Why is the supply constricted? Because Paris refuse to build anything in the center. That's because the center is a historical preservation district writ large. If you build anything modern, it would "ruin" the image of Paris. So, Paris would need to change its policy and start demolishing old buildings, and build higher density buildings. Certainly,…

The preservation district does exist, but it's certainly not a major issue. There are plenty of places that are not subject to preservation, often within a five-minute walk of preserved ones.

The real problem in Paris is the transport infrastructure. As it stands, the morning and evening commutes already saturate several subway and bus lines, non-taxi cars only have access to a subset of all available lanes (and most of the time these are one-way), and while the bicycle rental system works quite well, it does not alleviate peak usage in cold or rainy weather.

So, while it's entirely feasible (both technologically and from a historical preservation aspect) to build a 1000-person housing unit with the same footprint as the old 100-person ones, it would only take a few of these to completely saturate the local subway station and nearby streets every morning and every evening.

Re: Priced out of Paris

#137

Post by Jacqued »

epsylon wrote: post #120
michaelochurch wrote: post #104

Someone needs to publish a list of all these 11.5-month-vacant apartments that rich people buy and that take up so much space, so that burglars can get in when they're not there. There should be an app for that. I'm sure there are home security measures up the wazoo, but those are technical problems. I could never hack the criminal lifestyle-- I have enough anxiety as it is-- but there are cases in which non-violent…

There has been actually a few actions by some local associations to squat vacant buildings in Paris. One of the most famous of these squat was Rue de la Banque , nearby the prestigious Place de la Bourse , which owes its name to the Palais Brongniart, the old Paris Stock Exchange. The building had been bought by a bank and left vacant for years. By squatting it these three associations did a great thing and launched…

I am 100% in favor of these actions, not so much the squatting itself as the fact that the city ends up turning useless offices into homes - there is too much office space in paris, and an awful lot of them remain empty.

Also, social housing tends to drive the middle class out of the market : since it takes up 15% of the housing space in Paris and houses people who could not be on the market otherwise, it actually contributes to forcing the middle class out of Paris. (Not saying social housing in itself is a bad thing)

SO if you combine : - too much office space - 15% of housing taken up by social housing - limitations on construction because the city is a giant museum - no extention of the city since 1860 (prices go down 20-50% when you change the postal code from 75 to 93 - ecological regulations that make buildings more costly to building every other year

You get why prices have more than doubled since 2000. Paris is going to be a city without a middle class, with only elites, upper-class and poor workers

Re: Priced out of Paris

#138

Post by [deleted] »

Jacqued wrote: post #137
epsylon wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There has been actually a few actions by some local associations to squat vacant buildings in Paris. One of the most famous of these squat was Rue de la Banque , nearby the prestigious Place de la Bourse , which owes its name to the Palais Brongniart, the old Paris Stock Exchange. The building had been bought by a bank and left vacant for years. By squatting it these three associations did a great thing and launched…

I am 100% in favor of these actions, not so much the squatting itself as the fact that the city ends up turning useless offices into homes - there is too much office space in paris, and an awful lot of them remain empty. Also, social housing tends to drive the middle class out of the market : since it takes up 15% of the housing space in Paris and houses people who could not be on the market otherwise, it actually co…

[deleted]

Re: Priced out of Paris

#139

Post by Gmo »

epsylon wrote: post #127
carlob wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I live just nearby Paris (in Issy-les-moulineaux) and I do vote for a mayor, just not the mayor of Paris. I also vote for a few local representatives (département, canton and région). Representation isn't a problem, since many projects are handled by the départements or région. I lived in Montrouge and in Le Kremlin-Bicêtre, so I know what I'm talking about. Look at all the trouble they ran into when they tried to…

I don't remember any specific issues about extending the Vélib outside Paris, but perhaps I didn't pay attention too much. Can you develop ? I don't thing centralizing things more than they are today would significantly improve the issues faced by the various neighbouring municipalities. Au contraire , I'm a proponent of decentralization.

I would not call merging towns around Paris in Paris centralization. It's more the contrary actually, as you should see this move for "Paris the town" and not "Paris the capital of France".

Actually, this should be done with other French major cities (actually minor cities as well), we have far too many towns in France and far too many layers.

Re: Priced out of Paris

#140

Post by victorNicollet »

salmonellaeater wrote: post #13

The article implies that it's a big problem for commodities to go to the people willing to pay the most for them. Housing is just another commodity; is it surprising that the people who derive the most value from being in a city center (professionals in finance, law, business) end up paying the most for the privilege?

It is not surprising. But it's a very bad idea.

A city needs low- or medium-wage jobs. Teachers. Paramedics. Firemen. Policemen. Bus drivers. Public workers. If these people get pushed out of the city, a workforce shortage occurs, with obvious consequences : there are fewer such workers around, and they get paid more for less work.

If you take into account all the bonuses, perks and short hours, it's not unheard of for a bus driver to earn as much, per hour of work, as an average lawyer.

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