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Priced out of Paris

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Re: Priced out of Paris

#71

Post by dagw »

EwanG wrote: post #58
rdouble wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually know the difference between City of London and London because I watched that one clever Youtube video explaining it. However, I don't really have the details internalized as I've not been to London. To explain what I meant, I was thinking of this article that I read about One Hyde Park: http://www.vanityfair.com/society/2013/04/mysterious-residen... I had merged this info in my head with another link that…

I wonder if there is a need here for a Luxury AirBnB so that folks who aren't millionaires could spend time in these places that are otherwise going empty. Seems like space could be offered for less than normal rent since anything above $0 would be a gain as long as there was a decent screening process.

You're ignoring the physiological 'cost' of knowing some filthy stranger will be poking around your nice house. Also renting out a place means you cannot store anything of value in the place. For many people who can afford top end apartments in central London, those two 'costs' will be much higher than any income they might get from renting.

Also the value of having a flat like this is knowing that when business requires you to fly to London on 90 minutes notice, at least you'll have somewhere nice and familiar to crash. That is completely lost if there is a chance the someone else might be staying in your apartment when you arrive

Re: Priced out of Paris

#72

Post by pwperl »

NatW wrote: post #61

I'm an American ruby/python developer living in Paris. The cost of living in Paris is comparable to living in New York City or San Francisco. In some ways it can be cheaper. You can find affordable places to live and work all over Paris, and you can find all kinds of ways to spend or save money in any city.

I am also an American living in Paris, and while I would agree with you that you can find affordable places, as well as different ways to save money here, the fact is that rents are going up significantly each year. An area like Père Lachaise that would have cost €750/month for 30m2 4 years ago, now costs about €1000/month for the same surface area. I wouldn't say this is due to the so-called 1% (after all, combining several tiny apartments to build one big one is quite rare). I chalk it up to the bobo-fication of areas in East Paris while the west gets gobbled up by the super rich.

I ended up moving to Bagnolet, 500m from the périph (beltway). As soon as your area code changes from 75 to 93, prices often fall by half. Because of the '75 or bust' mindset here, lower earners like myself will be forced to seek a place outside of Paris. But that's not necessarily bad because in the Paris metro area, values are based more on the beginning of your postal code as much as they are on proximity. So while the 93 is associated with a ghetto communist suburb, it affords people like me the ability to take advantage of Parisian stereotypes and score a great deal.

Re: Priced out of Paris

#73

Post by TheAnimus »

simonbarker87 wrote: post #37
andyking wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if my pay was doubled, I wouldn't be able to afford to live in or near London. However, I can afford a comfortable lifestyle in rural Yorkshire (house, car, holidays, internet access, good food, days out etc etc) on a modest pay packet. The rent for my 17th century cottage with garden in a Yorkshire village wouldn't get me a room in a shared house in an undesirable part of London. I don't understand the pull of…

Couldn't agree more, I live in Newcastle (Upon Tyne) and wonder why all my friends headed down south after uni - for "the salary" was their reasoning but none of them have savings and their salary goes into rent, commuting and maintain an expensive social life. I'd much rather be here in Newcastle and be able to afford to live and save - just wish the weather were a little better

Everyone I know in London who is The wages are so good here, so long as you don't blow it on a £2k pcm flat in a tendy part of town you can save a lot of money, very quickly.

Myself by having a 35-50min (depending on traffic and my exhuastion!) I find my accomodation costs are comparatively very low, despite still getting a London weighted income. This means I can not only service my modest flats mortgage easily, but am also buying a place in the middle of the mountains, so I can be a hermit.

Last time I looked outside of London, I would earn less than half what I get in London. I'm happy living in Zone 4 (where 1 is the central area), which means my rent is cheap. Going for a meal out or similar probably costs less than up north. At least comparing it to Manchester / Leeds / Lake District.

However, it is very non-terminal. I think five more years, then rent my London place, move either to subberbs and expensive commute, but house. Or hopefully, give up working for someone else all together. Not only did I meet my business partner via London network of friends, but also I built enough of a cash pile to be able to work full time on it.

None of those things would have happened if I was on £35k with £700pcm costs. I'll take £150k with £1200pcm every time.

Re: Priced out of Paris

#74

Post by redbad »

stevoski wrote: post #4

The article talks a lot about cities now being the domain only of "one-percenters" and "global elite". This is demonstrably false. Consider the UK. UK's population: 62 million London population: 8 million 13% of the UK's population, therefore, resides in London. To say that only the "1%" can afford London is clearly not the case. In France's case, 15% of the population live in Paris. Perhaps we can't all live in Lond…

Thanks for your pedantry. It really adds some signal to the noise.

Re: Priced out of Paris

#75

Post by Thrymr »

dasil003 wrote: post #14
datr wrote: post #5

I don't want to undermine this piece too much as I think it is an important issue and what I'm about to say doesn't address all of the details. But I also believe it's an issue that will be partially solved by automated cars. As soon as it becomes palatable to live further from the city and commute; and, to a lesser extent, free up space from car parks, this problem will be dramatically reduced.

How is this any different from the endless and dehumanizing suburban sprawl pioneered by America? Frankly, you're better off taking a train from the suburbs in London than you will be self-driving cars unless they can solve the congestion problem. The thing is, a lot of people want to live in the city, because they like to, you know, live in a city, not just work there.

I guarantee there a plenty of people living in cities who would be quite happy to live elsewhere if only there were jobs there. Many of those people live in the city to avoid a long commute, not because they enjoy living in a city.

Re: Priced out of Paris

#76

Post by jusben1369 »

What's obvious by this article is that large cities are in a constant state of flux. Picking a particular moment and bemoaning or applauding the current state is obviously a relatively futile exercise. Perhaps we should modify that famous weather statement "If you don't like the state of your major city just wait 10 years"

Re: Priced out of Paris

#77

Post by sturadnidge »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #18
stevoski wrote: post #4

The article talks a lot about cities now being the domain only of "one-percenters" and "global elite". This is demonstrably false. Consider the UK. UK's population: 62 million London population: 8 million 13% of the UK's population, therefore, resides in London. To say that only the "1%" can afford London is clearly not the case. In France's case, 15% of the population live in Paris. Perhaps we can't all live in Lond…

> To say that only the "1%" can afford London is clearly not the case. ORLY. Consider the London borough of Camden. "40% of children are under the poverty line, but average house prices have just hit £1m." http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/21/mervyn-k... http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2011/05/hous-m24.html?view=p... In other words, you can afford to "live" in London so long as you pay your salary on r…

Not exactly, either the above or you can live in central London if you are on government benefits - the civic planning here is pretty messed up, I appreciate the idealism of forcibly mixing socio-economic classes by mandating council housing be placed amidst regular housing in every borough, but it seems insane that it's the workers who are getting pushed further and further out. Not suggesting the unemployed should.

Re: Priced out of Paris

#78

Post by simonbarker87 »

twic wrote: post #47
simonbarker87 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't agree more, I live in Newcastle (Upon Tyne) and wonder why all my friends headed down south after uni - for "the salary" was their reasoning but none of them have savings and their salary goes into rent, commuting and maintain an expensive social life. I'd much rather be here in Newcastle and be able to afford to live and save - just wish the weather were a little better

It's great that you two feel that way. As someone who grew up in cities in the south and now lives in London, i'd rather saw my own leg off than live in rural Yorkshire. There just isn't anything there that appeals to me. Newcastle would be less scary - i'd only give up a foot to avoid living there. This is not in any way a slight against either Yorkshire or Newcastle. Just an observation that one man's meat is anoth…

Agreed, if you're smart then living in the south can be financially better. However I would say that my hobbies and interests (road and mountain biking) would be a lot harder in London - I grew up in Essex so appreciate the difference in the north and south - I'm not really interested in the social side of a city so that's another plus point to the north for me but for, many, a big negative compared to London.

A friend of mine recently moved him and his start up from London to Keswick and is loving it - it's all about aligning where you live with whats important to you.

ps. Given the love of football up here (sadly) you'll be needing that foot of yours!

Re: Priced out of Paris

#79

Post by lr »

Perhaps it is time for people with incomes lower (and very low assets/net worth) to be able to deduct their rent from their income, the same way mortgage interest is...

Re: Priced out of Paris

#80

Post by raverbashing »

kiba wrote: post #3

Why is Paris really expensive? Constricted supply and high demand. Why is the supply constricted? Because Paris refuse to build anything in the center. That's because the center is a historical preservation district writ large. If you build anything modern, it would "ruin" the image of Paris. So, Paris would need to change its policy and start demolishing old buildings, and build higher density buildings. Certainly,…

That's such an uninformed answer it's funny.

Yes, let's rip all the center of Paris and build 100 floor buildings because there's something magical about that specific longitude-latitude.

Paris is attractive because of several factors, one of them their architecture.

If you're just there for a fancy apartment you can look elsewhere. You rarely need to be there.

(but yes, swapping old buildings is something there may be a case for)

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