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Linux has better hardware support than OS X

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Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#191

Post by calinet6 »

Nursie wrote: post #169
jfarmer wrote: post #68

This is silly. Although I'm sure it's gotten much better since I regularly used Linux on the desktop, you always had to do some amount of due diligence about what hardware worked well with it and what hardware didn't. For example, because I use OS X, I can go to any store, purchase my choice of Lexmark printer, and be on my merry way with a minimal amount of checking. The fact that I have to know that there's a "refe…

For all your nonsense, I've had far less trouble getting devices to work with linux than any other OS over the last few years. Device support on Linux just works more often than it does for Windows or Mac OS these days. And I'm including laptops.

I think we're within the margin of error here. All devices I've ever bought for Mac "just work." Call it anecdotal, but that's the case.

Good for Linux if it has also reached that point, but don't call OSX worse when it isn't.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#192

Post by calinet6 »

The article calls out people for putting down Linux device support, and then adds this lovely disclaimer:

"If you use Linux and like to advocate for its use, it’s time to stop telling people they should try it and it’ll Just Work. Because it won’t. It’ll probably Mostly Work. And the remaining 5% of not-workiness will cause yet another person to start propagating the “Linux has bad hardware support” meme."

I'm sorry, but if 5% of devices don't just work, then you have no place writing this article, and you've just discovered exactly why that "Linux has no hardware support" meme exists.

"But make sure they know that for best experience, they will have to research and choose a known-good configuration. Just like they did when picking out their shiny Mac."

In other words, you have to do more work to get it to work. In other words, it does not "just work." In other words, Linux does not have better hardware support than OSX, OSX just has better hardware.

Don't you get it? That's exactly why people buy Macs: so they don't have to think about that. Start a company that makes preconfigured Linux desktops that "just work" if you want, but don't go decrying a whole platform for having it all figured out. If you're saying it's better "if only people would just do their research" then you really don't get it.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#193

Post by calinet6 »

S201 wrote: post #131
mathnode wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about over heating? I tried ubuntu 12.04, and 12.10 on a 2011 macbook air 4,2. I followed the information here, some of the tweaks weren't needed on 12.10: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookAir4-2 But the fans were spinning almost constantly. This was with just firefox and vim usage. OS X seems to do a better job of running Apple hardware at a sensible temperature.

I'm using this project on my Macbook retina and it works wonderfully: https://github.com/dgraziotin/Fan-Control-Daemon The fans only spin up when I'm doing something intensive and go back down to completely silent when finished.

Back in the 10.5 days, you had to install separate fan control daemons for OSX too, because it didn't do well enough. This has mostly been fixed.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#194

Post by virtualritz »

jfarmer wrote: post #68

This is silly. Although I'm sure it's gotten much better since I regularly used Linux on the desktop, you always had to do some amount of due diligence about what hardware worked well with it and what hardware didn't. For example, because I use OS X, I can go to any store, purchase my choice of Lexmark printer, and be on my merry way with a minimal amount of checking. The fact that I have to know that there's a "refe…

Printing? In 2013? This is the least relevant part of hardware support for me since about a decade, on any OS. And that goes for pretty much anyone of my friends too, no one owns printers any more these days. A decade, more or less, is how long I haven't, personally, needed a printer and hence not owned one. So while I can't counter your claims, I couldn't care less. And all the places I worked @ in the last decade, in VFX, ran their printers on queues on CUPS on Linux servers. They always worked, on the utterly rare occasions that I still needed to kill trees to rely information to some entity stuck in the past. ;)

How about sth. just as preposterous an example: I salvaged a +20 years old 9 needle printer (Star NL-10) from a stash of hard rubbish two months ago. I got it to work w/o problems on Linux (trivia: I used turpentine on the ribbon cassette to get the ink 'flowing' again). I still can't get the thing to do anything sensible when I attach it to my Retina MacBook Pro running the latest and greatest OS X. :P

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#195

Post by nkorth »

calinet6 wrote: post #192

The article calls out people for putting down Linux device support, and then adds this lovely disclaimer: "If you use Linux and like to advocate for its use, it’s time to stop telling people they should try it and it’ll Just Work. Because it won’t. It’ll probably Mostly Work. And the remaining 5% of not-workiness will cause yet another person to start propagating the “Linux has bad hardware support” meme." I'm sorry,…

> In other words, you have to do more work to get it to work.

Last I checked, making a Hackintosh was a lot of work (when it's even possible). And that's what happens when installing OS X on 95% of hardware.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#196

Post by trebor »

calinet6 wrote: post #192

The article calls out people for putting down Linux device support, and then adds this lovely disclaimer: "If you use Linux and like to advocate for its use, it’s time to stop telling people they should try it and it’ll Just Work. Because it won’t. It’ll probably Mostly Work. And the remaining 5% of not-workiness will cause yet another person to start propagating the “Linux has bad hardware support” meme." I'm sorry,…

This was one of the reasons why I did not switch to Linux, but switched to OS X. The factor of "just buy it and it works" is really appealing, especially from my Windows system-builder past. (I reinstalled Windows XP 6x in about a month to find what I was installing that broke OLE, and totally broke my only school computer's ability to launch word processors.)

But then again, OS X has good hardware support because it only supports the kind of hardware that Apple sells. They can afford to do the work to fully support each piece of hardware they add, rather than the full breadth of the computer spectrum.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#197

Post by gamache »

muyuu wrote: post #174
edent wrote: post #28

Interestingly, I run Ubuntu on a MacBook and a MacBook Air. As they are a "fixed" target, I figured that at least one developer would have made sure that they "just worked". And, indeed, they did. The installation tutorial was comprehensive, the out of the box experience was great, and upgrades have gone smoothly. The only thing to note was that I was able to manually update the WiFi drivers for (supposedly) better p…

System 76 are offering new configurations and frankly they seem fantastic. I haven't ordered yet because I'm in the UK and I have to find out about VAT and tariffs (last time I ordered straight from the US I was charged them and a fine on top, and extortionate "processing charges"). Otherwise I'd be ordering straight away even with a 20% VAT on top.

Data point: I bought a System 76 Ubuntu netbook 2-3 years ago and it was garbage. Bad power management, finicky trackpad, sticky keys on the tiny keyboard. I hated using it (so I didn't).

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#198

Post by jackcviers3 »

Hardware just works on OSX. I have never been required to compile any drivers from source for OSX. I have had to compile drivers from source for Linux for: Keyboard - Black Widow Anasazi; Wireless-N dual band usb dongles... in the last year.

the keyboard and the dongles worked out of the box, but both were missing some of the functionality they have on other os'.

Specifically, the usb dongles couldn't work on their 5ghz band. The driver that was compatible with their chipsets needed to be manually updated because the hw ids weren't in the headers for the driver. The keyboard has additional keys that were unrecognized by Linux that had to be made available.

support is likewise troublesome. You can use these things-just not be fully as on OSX.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#199

Post by calinet6 »

nkorth wrote: post #195
calinet6 wrote: post #192

The article calls out people for putting down Linux device support, and then adds this lovely disclaimer: "If you use Linux and like to advocate for its use, it’s time to stop telling people they should try it and it’ll Just Work. Because it won’t. It’ll probably Mostly Work. And the remaining 5% of not-workiness will cause yet another person to start propagating the “Linux has bad hardware support” meme." I'm sorry,…

> In other words, you have to do more work to get it to work. Last I checked, making a Hackintosh was a lot of work (when it's even possible). And that's what happens when installing OS X on 95% of hardware.

That's why you don't make Hackintoshes. :)

You could say we're comparing Apples and Oranges here. It's not even worth the comparison. Mac is a better experience because it's integrated, but it will never have generic hardware support. Linux has open, generic support for a lot of hardware, but it will never "just work." Pick one.

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