Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Priced out of Paris

ft.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 186 posts

Re: Priced out of Paris

#21

Post by dabeeeenster »

stevoski wrote: post #4

The article talks a lot about cities now being the domain only of "one-percenters" and "global elite". This is demonstrably false. Consider the UK. UK's population: 62 million London population: 8 million 13% of the UK's population, therefore, resides in London. To say that only the "1%" can afford London is clearly not the case. In France's case, 15% of the population live in Paris. Perhaps we can't all live in Lond…

Most young Londoners cannot afford to buy property anywhere near the center of the city any more. I employ several, and see this first hand.

In 2001 I bought a flat for (at the time quite a lot of money!) £200,000. I could just about afford it on a developer salary at the very peak of the dot-com boom. I sold it a few years later. Now that flat is worth about £700,000.

This article is accurate as far as London is concerned.

Re: Priced out of Paris

#22

Post by rdouble »

stevoski wrote: post #4

The article talks a lot about cities now being the domain only of "one-percenters" and "global elite". This is demonstrably false. Consider the UK. UK's population: 62 million London population: 8 million 13% of the UK's population, therefore, resides in London. To say that only the "1%" can afford London is clearly not the case. In France's case, 15% of the population live in Paris. Perhaps we can't all live in Lond…

The 1% buy multiple properties in many different cities. There have been articles about how the City of London has neighborhoods of empty luxury apartment developments owned by various sheikhs and russian/central asian commodities oligarchs.

In SF when you buy a house you are also competing with dozens of investors from overseas paying cash who don't have any intention of ever living there. I believe that the Vancouver real estate market was also affected by overseas investors in a similar way, making it the least affordable housing market in North America.

Multiply this speculative real estate investment by 1% of 7 billion and it could very well be a major factor in pushing up rents, especially in certain super desirable cities like Paris. There's about 1.7 million residences there. Even if only 1% of the 1% want a pied a terre there, the rest of the people trying to live there would feel the squeeze.

I have personally seen the effects of this. When I lived in on South 4th street in Williamsburg Brooklyn in 1998, my floor through apartment was $700/m. Now the same apartment is renting for $3700 a month. That particular street is still a dump! The only people I know who can afford to live in nice apartments in SoHo or Tribeca are the children of super rich people.

Re: Priced out of Paris

#23

Post by mrmagooey »

The story of "things used to be better" is one that apparently never gets old.

PS. Anyone who bemoans the lack of "ribald proletariat banter" without a trace of irony is putting themselves squarely in the sights of the same banter ("wanker"), IMO.

Re: Priced out of Paris

#24

Post by andyking »

stevoski wrote: post #4

The article talks a lot about cities now being the domain only of "one-percenters" and "global elite". This is demonstrably false. Consider the UK. UK's population: 62 million London population: 8 million 13% of the UK's population, therefore, resides in London. To say that only the "1%" can afford London is clearly not the case. In France's case, 15% of the population live in Paris. Perhaps we can't all live in Lond…

Even if my pay was doubled, I wouldn't be able to afford to live in or near London. However, I can afford a comfortable lifestyle in rural Yorkshire (house, car, holidays, internet access, good food, days out etc etc) on a modest pay packet. The rent for my 17th century cottage with garden in a Yorkshire village wouldn't get me a room in a shared house in an undesirable part of London.

I don't understand the pull of the capital. It's overcrowded, noisy and dirty, even in its 'desirable' areas. The oil sheikhs and Russian oligarchs can keep it. I'd much rather live up here even if I had enough money to live in London!

Re: Priced out of Paris

#25

Post by kiba »

chrisvineup wrote: post #11
kiba wrote: post #3

Why is Paris really expensive? Constricted supply and high demand. Why is the supply constricted? Because Paris refuse to build anything in the center. That's because the center is a historical preservation district writ large. If you build anything modern, it would "ruin" the image of Paris. So, Paris would need to change its policy and start demolishing old buildings, and build higher density buildings. Certainly,…

Yeah start with that stupid Eiffel Tower its a bloody eyesore!

Unfortunately, the desire to keep historical buildings conflict with the need to add density. Clearly, people should make some tradeoff, but it should not be "never demolish any old buildings".

Re: Priced out of Paris

#26

Post by mtgx »

datr wrote: post #5

I don't want to undermine this piece too much as I think it is an important issue and what I'm about to say doesn't address all of the details. But I also believe it's an issue that will be partially solved by automated cars. As soon as it becomes palatable to live further from the city and commute; and, to a lesser extent, free up space from car parks, this problem will be dramatically reduced.

I think much more than automated cars, what will help is the Internet and new technologies making it ever easier to work from home, instead of having to "go to your job" in the city.

Re: Priced out of Paris

#27

Post by ealexhudson »

stevoski wrote: post #4

The article talks a lot about cities now being the domain only of "one-percenters" and "global elite". This is demonstrably false. Consider the UK. UK's population: 62 million London population: 8 million 13% of the UK's population, therefore, resides in London. To say that only the "1%" can afford London is clearly not the case. In France's case, 15% of the population live in Paris. Perhaps we can't all live in Lond…

Others have said, but I'll add: this is accurate for London. Greater London is a large area, the actual inner city is totally unaffordable by anyone's definition.

Even GL is largely unaffordable. House prices defy gravity, and rents are going up, at a time when Govt. is cutting housing benefit severely (which should result in net lower demand) - most London boroughs have a large outflow of socially housed tenants of various forms.

The average London property price is $785k (USD). There are a number of boroughs in London where the average is double that. And, due to the way the Govt. is blowing up the mortgage market, owning is actually cheaper than renting (so long as you have the deposit... for now; next year, Govt. will give you that as well).

13% of the population may be in Greater London. Large numbers of them are moving out; current affordability is incredibly bad.

Re: Priced out of Paris

#28

Post by icebraining »

salmonellaeater wrote: post #13

The article implies that it's a big problem for commodities to go to the people willing to pay the most for them. Housing is just another commodity; is it surprising that the people who derive the most value from being in a city center (professionals in finance, law, business) end up paying the most for the privilege?

That it's not surprising doesn't mean it's not a problem. And while those classes may derive the most value from being in the city center, it doesn't necessarily mean that society as whole does. Or even those individuals themselves, in the longer term.

Re: Priced out of Paris

#29

Post by no_wave »

This is transparently false - the median household income in Manhattan is somewhere around 65k. This is high, but it is not remotely the reality presented.

If people are being "priced out", it's by other peoples' willingness to pay more for rent. The masochism of people moving to New York City these days astounds me - they're willing to live in some really terrible conditions to live in New York. Similarly, when I lived in Paris I lived in a ludicrously small apartment with a bathroom in the public hallway. My willingness to pay even a small amount for even that crappy setup "priced out" the potential of combining the space with another apartment or something. What an asshole I am!

Re: Priced out of Paris

#30

Post by vixen99 »

mrmagooey wrote: post #23

The story of "things used to be better" is one that apparently never gets old. PS. Anyone who bemoans the lack of "ribald proletariat banter" without a trace of irony is putting themselves squarely in the sights of the same banter ("wanker"), IMO.

Good graffiti style rhetoric but no argument or pertinent observation.
Post reply on HN