Norwegian backup provider promises NSA-free data storage using Norwegian laws

From the article "U.S. law enforcement could use the USA PATRIOT Act on a U.S.-based organisation, like Microsoft, Google, Dropbox or Amazon, for example, to force its local subsidiary companies across the world into handing over user data to U.S. authorities."

Exactly how? By my understanding a company in EU operates under EU law and US parent company is only stock owner. Stock owner can not by my understanding force the company to do anything if the company does not want. Lets assume that US company does not want to force daughter company, how can NSA to make them?

EDIT: I'm fully aware that by harassment or blackmail anything can be done, no question here. What I meant to inquiry, out of curiosity, is, is there a legal way to _force_. I know that parent company can control and fire board etc, but can they be forced to do so. Or more broadly, can some US agency take full control of US company and run it like they please. Can f.e. NSA if they really-really wan't to rise McDonalds burgerflippers salary by twofold? Does Patriot Act or something allow that?

Re: Norwegian backup provider promises NSA-free data storage using Norwegian laws

#5

Post by arkitaip » Mon, Jun 17, 2013, 10:21 AM UTC

This might become a major trend in the EU if hosting/storage providers play their cards right. Sure the low prices, performance and flexibility of US providers are very tempting but surrendering your data to US intelligence agencies and god knows who else might no longer be a viable option, especially for government agencies and major corporations that might be targets of industrial espionage.

Re: Norwegian backup provider promises NSA-free data storage using Norwegian laws

#6

Post by DannyBee » Mon, Jun 17, 2013, 10:23 AM UTC

atirip wrote: post #4

From the article "U.S. law enforcement could use the USA PATRIOT Act on a U.S.-based organisation, like Microsoft, Google, Dropbox or Amazon, for example, to force its local subsidiary companies across the world into handing over user data to U.S. authorities." Exactly how? By my understanding a company in EU operates under EU law and US parent company is only stock owner. Stock owner can not by my understanding forc…

Your understanding is false. A sole stockholder (for example, the parent of an independent subsidiary), always has control, even if not by specific direction.

They can, after all, fire the entire board, and elect a new one that will direct the company to do what they want.

Not to mention in most cases, parent companies do in fact, maintain control over subsidiaries (IE they are not independent subsidiaries), and thus can directly control activities.

Re: Norwegian backup provider promises NSA-free data storage using Norwegian laws

#7

Post by Filligree » Mon, Jun 17, 2013, 10:23 AM UTC

atirip wrote: post #4

From the article "U.S. law enforcement could use the USA PATRIOT Act on a U.S.-based organisation, like Microsoft, Google, Dropbox or Amazon, for example, to force its local subsidiary companies across the world into handing over user data to U.S. authorities." Exactly how? By my understanding a company in EU operates under EU law and US parent company is only stock owner. Stock owner can not by my understanding forc…

Privacy laws in Europe are a bit of a mess (there being >1 country involved), and possibly stricter than the companies want to deal with.

So the information they're storing is, at least nominally, stored on computers owned by the american branches.

Re: Norwegian backup provider promises NSA-free data storage using Norwegian laws

#8

Post by Drakim » Mon, Jun 17, 2013, 10:25 AM UTC

atirip wrote: post #4

From the article "U.S. law enforcement could use the USA PATRIOT Act on a U.S.-based organisation, like Microsoft, Google, Dropbox or Amazon, for example, to force its local subsidiary companies across the world into handing over user data to U.S. authorities." Exactly how? By my understanding a company in EU operates under EU law and US parent company is only stock owner. Stock owner can not by my understanding forc…

As long as they have a presence in the US, it's in their best interest to act according to US laws. I don't think saying "while we have many US customers, we are technically positioned in Ireland" is going to cut it.

Re: Norwegian backup provider promises NSA-free data storage using Norwegian laws

#9

Post by brasetvik » Mon, Jun 17, 2013, 10:25 AM UTC

"In Norway, privacy stands firm like the mighty mountains of Jotunheimen.".

Let's not flatter ourselves too much: http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datalagringsdirektivet (in Norwegian, http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&pre...), or the less detailed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Retention_Directive

Re: Norwegian backup provider promises NSA-free data storage using Norwegian laws

#10

Post by mtgx » Mon, Jun 17, 2013, 10:25 AM UTC

atirip wrote: post #4

From the article "U.S. law enforcement could use the USA PATRIOT Act on a U.S.-based organisation, like Microsoft, Google, Dropbox or Amazon, for example, to force its local subsidiary companies across the world into handing over user data to U.S. authorities." Exactly how? By my understanding a company in EU operates under EU law and US parent company is only stock owner. Stock owner can not by my understanding forc…

> Lets assume that US company does not want to force daughter company, how can NSA to make them?

How can you still ask that question right now? Have you missed the whole Wikileaks scandal? All it took was one phone call for Amazon to take down their website. They didn't even need a court order or something.

I don't know what the laws are exactly, but in practice, and thanks to post-9/11 culture in law enforcement agencies, they can do whatever they want as long as they wave "national security" in front of them.