Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sweden? The country that's trying to extradite Assange?
For rape, not espionage.
Does Sweden frequently issue international arrest warrants for rape suspects?
Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden
231–240 of 311 posts
Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden
#232I live in Hong Kong, and can verify that it is absolutely a technologist's paradise and an extremely easy place to move around in. Phones are incredibly cheap; the cheapest functional Android knockoff smartphones will run you about $50-80 (all prices in USD for simplicity), maybe less if you get it in Kowloon. "Burner"-style phones can be as low as $8. SIM cards are essentially free (usually about $8-10 deposit on th…
yeah, but what's the pay like? pay vs price is a lot more meaningful of a comparison than just price.
The pay is awful for the average Hong Konger compared to cost of living. Minimum wage is $30/hr, which is ~$3.75 USD. That doesn't sound bad for China until you factor in rent; 800 sqft apartments cost upwards of HK$20,000 - HK$30,000/mo. Hardly affordable on HK$60k/yr, and many young professionals live with family.
Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden
#233I dont get it - every one of those factors is present in India as well (with a few compromises on bandwidth I'll admit). If the article makes a case that in Hong Kong people can take to the streets, it so happens that they did in Delhi [1]. Hell, India has a superior record of amnesty than most other countries [2]. Plus, the tech work scene is undoubtedly better in India as well as .... um... not being 100% undemocra…
Is there access to uninterrupted electricity?
Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the most salient point is that he needed to go to a country where - the US did not have significant influence - could not be strong-armed into giving him up - would cause significant problems if he were taken without consent (or killed outright - not implausible, given the things we've seen in Pakistan) China is a fairly logical choice - it's as far as you can run from the US in geopolitical terms. Hong Kong…
Ooof, kind of, sort of, maybe? I can see the argument, at a very high level but I don't think it survives even a cursory examination of the details, which are - by going to HK he's walking into a very convoluted situation the outcome of which neither he nor anyone else can really predict. And he's basically betting that all twists and turns of the various intermediate outcomes will go his way. This seems incredibly r…
I guess my point is that there would be severe ramifications if the US deployed its military to retrieve Snowden within Chinese territory.
Whether they'd do it or not is not the issue - Snowden is a whistle blower who's had a peak inside the system, and is paranoid (perhaps justifiably given what he was leaking) about his safety. We're only trying to explain his choice, not whether it was a good one.
edit: also, the US has already killed its citizens without trial using drones in the war on terror. I think it's a pretty thin line between "enemy combatant" and "treasonous spy", slippery slope and all..
Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden
#235I live in Hong Kong, and can verify that it is absolutely a technologist's paradise and an extremely easy place to move around in. Phones are incredibly cheap; the cheapest functional Android knockoff smartphones will run you about $50-80 (all prices in USD for simplicity), maybe less if you get it in Kowloon. "Burner"-style phones can be as low as $8. SIM cards are essentially free (usually about $8-10 deposit on th…
Is that you Snowden?
Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden
#236I live in Hong Kong, and can verify that it is absolutely a technologist's paradise and an extremely easy place to move around in. Phones are incredibly cheap; the cheapest functional Android knockoff smartphones will run you about $50-80 (all prices in USD for simplicity), maybe less if you get it in Kowloon. "Burner"-style phones can be as low as $8. SIM cards are essentially free (usually about $8-10 deposit on th…
I lived and worked in/around Central when I was in HK a couple years ago. HKCSL 3G data was unusably slow (I don't think cell towers handle extreme density well). I switched to Three and it was slightly better but still horrendous compared to T-mobile in SF or Rogers in Toronto. I paid 50HKD/month for "50mbps" cable internet (some special deal at the time). What a joke. I got 50mbps torrenting and about 0.5mbps from…
It's much better now compared to your experience. I get "unlimited" LTE for around $40 USD/Mo more than half as much as I was paying AT&T. Quite fast and reliable even in the MTR which blew me away after having lived in NYC for a short while. Even the prepaid carriers like OneTwoFree are a quite good.
Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
yeah to cut straight to the chase a special administrative region of the people's republic of china is actually more free than the USA.
Dunno about "free", but what really bothers me is that someone decided to seek asylum from the US. US used to be the gold standard in democracy and justice.
When exactly was that?
Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden
#238Earlier quoted context omitted.
the majority of Hong Kong's land is undeveloped country parks and village areas. Less than 25% of [...] is actually developed That is nothing short of astonishing. Are the parks and undeveloped areas open to the public?
This is the best thing about Hong Kong. Finish work at 7, take a 10 minute metro to the base of a mountain, do a 3 hour hike before bed. Check out the view from above http://www.airpano.com/360Degree-VirtualTour.php?3D=honkong
In the dark? Doesn't the sun set around 8pm at the latest?
Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the most salient point is that he needed to go to a country where - the US did not have significant influence - could not be strong-armed into giving him up - would cause significant problems if he were taken without consent (or killed outright - not implausible, given the things we've seen in Pakistan) China is a fairly logical choice - it's as far as you can run from the US in geopolitical terms. Hong Kong…
Ooof, kind of, sort of, maybe? I can see the argument, at a very high level but I don't think it survives even a cursory examination of the details, which are - by going to HK he's walking into a very convoluted situation the outcome of which neither he nor anyone else can really predict. And he's basically betting that all twists and turns of the various intermediate outcomes will go his way. This seems incredibly r…
Where else would you suggest?
Most European countries have to a smaller or greater extent been complicit in illegal CIA rendition flights over the last decade and/or are extradition-happy or have already made it clear he's not a desirable person to host (UK telling airlines not to allow him onto flights).
Poorer countries or countries with unstable governments provide plenty of options to bribe someone to pick him up and/or drone strikes.
It needs to be somewhere where the US can't interfere without local government support without a massive backlash, and where there's at least a chance the local government or judiciary will hinder or delay an extradition, and there's not many places that fits those criteria and even fewer that fits those criteria and are desirable to go to. I assume, e.g. Iran isn't particularly tempting.
Releasing the information was incredibly risky. He might have chosen what he sees as the least bad alternative on a long list of bad alternatives.
> whatever one may think of the ethics, legality or quality of targeting of the drone strikes, they do target people involved in a violent, armed conflict with the US - 'enemy combatants' as the USG likes to call them.
Or so they say. And use as an excuse for all kinds of "collateral damage" including dead children. I don't see why the leap to going after Snowden if he were to hide in a country where they did not see a large risk of political fallout and didn't have other options, would be so great. E.g. if he were to hide in any country with a rebel movement hostile to the US, it'd be easy to claim he was meeting terrorists. I don't we have any basis for saying anything about what his risk of being taken out is.
I also find it interesting that you write off his risk of being killed by questioning the likelihood of drone strikes. US intelligence agencies have decades of history of "quieter" assassination methods.
Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden
#240Earlier quoted context omitted.
Did Daniel Ellsberg bolt for a communist nation, sympathetic to his views after releasing the Pentagon papers? No, he turned himself in. Snowden wants all the glory and none of the bruises. If that doesn't demonstrate a lack of selflessness, what does? Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Ellsberg#Trial_and_mistr...
Since you have such faith in Daniel Ellsberg's moral stature, you might want to refer to his comments on this particular case.
Here's a link, for the lazy:
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/html5/video?id=9135822&pid=913582...