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Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

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211–220 of 311 posts

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#211
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah to cut straight to the chase a special administrative region of the people's republic of china is actually more free than the USA.

a special administrative region of the people's republic of china is actually more free than the USA. Define 'free' in this context.

Maybe freedom to communicate without being subject to government surveillance?

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#212
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah to cut straight to the chase a special administrative region of the people's republic of china is actually more free than the USA.

a special administrative region of the people's republic of china is actually more free than the USA. Define 'free' in this context.

I'm guessing, in the 4th amendment sense.

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#213
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, no. That doesn't work like that. The times now and 40 years ago were different. CIA, NSA and the whole gamut are now much more efficient than they were 40 years ago (no need for due process etc.) If you try to play fair, they'll fuck you over big time. Look how much good the legal system was to Aaron Schwartz for a minor misdemeanor. You'd never hear from Edward Snowden, until he just came out and admitted he w…

I don't know whether to be amused or depressed by the ahistorical ignorance of your comments. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Committee

True, history hasn't been my strong side, but I don't see how Watergate is relevant?

The difference in technology (between now and then) is huge, since our lives have migrated more towards the Internet. Before the wiretapping could only go so far. You needed to install wiretapping in a room (phones could always be bugged).

Now wiretapping is everywhere. You literally carry the equipment for others to wiretap you (mobile phones, laptops, google glass, etc). It's just an order of magnitude more easier now.

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#214
post #79

I live in Hong Kong, and can verify that it is absolutely a technologist's paradise and an extremely easy place to move around in. Phones are incredibly cheap; the cheapest functional Android knockoff smartphones will run you about $50-80 (all prices in USD for simplicity), maybe less if you get it in Kowloon. "Burner"-style phones can be as low as $8. SIM cards are essentially free (usually about $8-10 deposit on th…

yeah, but what's the pay like? pay vs price is a lot more meaningful of a comparison than just price.

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#215

I think Snowden didn't have a lot of choices of places to fly to from Hawaii, where he was last based. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5854562 Some of the rationales for being in Hong Kong we see attributed to interview statements by him sound like statements by a person who knows a lot less about east Asia than he thinks he knows. In the six years that I lived in east Asia, all spent there after first learning…

I want to explain why I think you are wrong in terms of it being thought out. I think it was very carefully thought out and it fit into his plans very well. Whether it was "brilliant" or not I suppose depends on what you think of the game he is playing. If you carefully look at Snowden's actions and his statements to various press establishments, his entire strategy is based on playing one group off another. He got t…

Sounds more like a typical 29 year old to me. Doesn't have a retirement plan.

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#216
post #197
post #79

I live in Hong Kong, and can verify that it is absolutely a technologist's paradise and an extremely easy place to move around in. Phones are incredibly cheap; the cheapest functional Android knockoff smartphones will run you about $50-80 (all prices in USD for simplicity), maybe less if you get it in Kowloon. "Burner"-style phones can be as low as $8. SIM cards are essentially free (usually about $8-10 deposit on th…

I lived and worked in/around Central when I was in HK a couple years ago. HKCSL 3G data was unusably slow (I don't think cell towers handle extreme density well). I switched to Three and it was slightly better but still horrendous compared to T-mobile in SF or Rogers in Toronto. I paid 50HKD/month for "50mbps" cable internet (some special deal at the time). What a joke. I got 50mbps torrenting and about 0.5mbps from…

This makes sense.

The OP's "It's a cell phone carrier's dream; one tower can potentially reach nearly a million people." is the exact opposite of true. Frequencies used for mobile communication are limited and with that the total bandwidth of a cell site is limited.

This is the main reason new G's are coming out, 3G is packing many more bits per Hz then 2G was, and 4G is doing yet more.

New frequency bands are released for mobile communications to further alleviate the problem.

Network planners have to install more and more cells in dense urban areas and be careful not creating too much noise on the frequency as they have to reuse frequencies and codes.

In a place like HK skyscrapers are creating lots of problems with signal shadows and reflections.

Major office buildings sometimes have (unintentionally) selective glass that keeps outside mobile comms frequencies out and have indoor antennas that have strong and clean signals, but this is hardly the case for residential buildings.

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#217
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but it's a bit misleading. Although the developed areas of Hong Kong are quite literally wall-to-wall skyscrapers, the majority of Hong Kong's land is undeveloped country parks and village areas. Less than 25% of total land area of ~400 sq. mi. is actually developed.[0] The average density of those developed areas is thus incredibly high. Mong Kok for example, has a density of 340,000 / sq. mi., which is descri…

the majority of Hong Kong's land is undeveloped country parks and village areas. Less than 25% of [...] is actually developed That is nothing short of astonishing. Are the parks and undeveloped areas open to the public?

Yes, although it's somewhat bittersweet. I can't think of another city of similar size where I can live 5-minutes by car from the center of the business/entertainment district and a 5-minute walk from being in the middle of the forest. To give a visual example, this (very high end) residential building is about 10-minutes by car from the middle of the city:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hong_Kong_Parkview_2.jpg

The downside is that housing is close to the least affordable in the world with respect to median income. The average flat size is ~450 sq. ft., (of which typically less than 80% is actually the inside of the flat itself).

There have been a number of photo exhibits of late depicting the housing conditions that a significant portion of the population have to deal with:

http://www.psfk.com/2013/02/hong-kong-micro-slums.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2306842/Stunning-ima...

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#218
post #128

> Budding spies and others of a paranoid nature can buy a couple of those SIM cards to swap in and out of their (unlocked) phones for $10 in any 7-11, no registration, no questions asked (try doing that in India or Argentina!) Argentine here, you can buy SIM cards literally everywhere. Vendors will even sell them to you on trains.

Logging on to GSM your phone uploads its IMEI ('phone serial number') with the SIM card identifier or IMSI ('sim ID'). So if you switch, you are still tracked. Budding spies will learn their tech before putting their ass on the line.

As mentioned further up these comments, IMEI's can be forged, and phones produced "off-hours" in the factories often have IMEI's consisting of all 0's or all 1's. I gleaned this much just from reading this thread.

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#219
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not being entirely serious (hard to be, given the little we know) but I'm not being sarcastic, either. Some of Snowden's behaviour has been pretty odd. A variety of interpretations are possible. One is that he's a mastermind media manipulator/intelligence operator/exploiter of immigration laws/meticulous planner of a fugitive. This idea has some traction on HN and outside but I'm pretty skeptical of it. The inter…

I think the most salient point is that he needed to go to a country where - the US did not have significant influence - could not be strong-armed into giving him up - would cause significant problems if he were taken without consent (or killed outright - not implausible, given the things we've seen in Pakistan) China is a fairly logical choice - it's as far as you can run from the US in geopolitical terms. Hong Kong…

Ooof, kind of, sort of, maybe? I can see the argument, at a very high level but I don't think it survives even a cursory examination of the details, which are - by going to HK he's walking into a very convoluted situation the outcome of which neither he nor anyone else can really predict. And he's basically betting that all twists and turns of the various intermediate outcomes will go his way. This seems incredibly risky and not very, well, strategic.

I don't think, though, that in the unlikely event he gets Vanunu'd out Hong Kong it would cause significant problems for anyone but him. He also doesn't really face any risk of being killed - whatever one may think of the ethics, legality or quality of targeting of the drone strikes, they do target people involved in a violent, armed conflict with the US - 'enemy combatants' as the USG likes to call them. Snowden is not any sort of enemy combatant.

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#220
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but it's a bit misleading. Although the developed areas of Hong Kong are quite literally wall-to-wall skyscrapers, the majority of Hong Kong's land is undeveloped country parks and village areas. Less than 25% of total land area of ~400 sq. mi. is actually developed.[0] The average density of those developed areas is thus incredibly high. Mong Kok for example, has a density of 340,000 / sq. mi., which is descri…

the majority of Hong Kong's land is undeveloped country parks and village areas. Less than 25% of [...] is actually developed That is nothing short of astonishing. Are the parks and undeveloped areas open to the public?

This is the best thing about Hong Kong. Finish work at 7, take a 10 minute metro to the base of a mountain, do a 3 hour hike before bed.

Check out the view from abovehttp://www.airpano.com/360Degree-VirtualTour.php?3D=honkong

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