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Top Tech Companies: You filter on raw IQ, here is how to do it more effectively

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Re: Top Tech Companies: You filter on raw IQ, here is how to do it more effectively

#11

The most effective way to filter on raw IQ would be to... filter on raw IQ. But that's illegal.

It's not technically illegal, just legally perilous. Some companies do it, but they're companies that require a whole lot of other qualifications - "we only hire from Harvard and Yale" or "applicants must have ten years managing at least 150 employees".

Re: Top Tech Companies: You filter on raw IQ, here is how to do it more effectively

#12
I suggest they might want to filter based on IQ but the math doesn't support them. Pick a cut-off point, below which you will not hire a person. Assume perfect filtering and no mistakes. How big can your company get?

Start with 7 billion humans, then reduce to the set of those with at least the target IQ. Are there enough people in the world to make this work? How about after subtracting people who don't do that kind of work or don't speak the right languages? Or they're in the wrong country and won't move. Or they're at some other employer. Keep subtracting from the pool and see who's left.

If your company is bigger than the number you get after this filtering, then you aren't really filtering that way. You just think you are.

Re: Top Tech Companies: You filter on raw IQ, here is how to do it more effectively

#13
post #8

Ignoring the not-so-thinly-veiled-advertisement. The premise is wrong. Companies optimize for a lot more than raw IQ (company fit, engineering skills, response to criticism and pressure etc.) Humans can also get better a solving problems like he presents. It's not about memorizing test cases, it is about developing heuristics and noticing patterns - something humans are actually very good at. If you practice you will…

Why "response to criticism" - is that prevalent in your corporate culture? Sounds like a great reason to walk out of an interview.

In a professional environment, generally the best way to get started is to simply throw something up on a whiteboard, tear it apart, throw something else, tear it apart...rinse repeat. If I tell someone in an interview that their solution is flawed, I want them to be intrigued, ask questions and find out way OR tell me why I am wrong/mistaken in a professional manner - if they are stubborn, rude, angry or simply fail to respond, they will not be a good fit.

In any large culture people will constantly tell you you are going about something the wrong way, it is simply in the nature of large cultures. It is the job of any professional engineer to compile notes, listen and react appropriately to this. Sometimes the other people don't have the whole story, or are simply just wrong...other times they know something you don't and you have to be willing to scrap what you were doing and go back to the drawing board - with a new contact and fresh information.

Re: Top Tech Companies: You filter on raw IQ, here is how to do it more effectively

#15
post #4

This post is a mischaracterization of why tech companies as basic coding questions. Or at least Microsoft, where I learned to interview and coached my own team of interviewers over several years. 1) Basic coding questions are a nice filter. If you can't remove an element from a doubly-linked list in C on a whiteboard immediately after graduating, what were you doing the last four/five years? It's like the height sign…

> point 1)

I remember what a doubly linked list is but I wouldn't remember C well enough to pass the test. Does that make me a bad programmer?

> point 2)

Depending on the position, this might or might not matter. If you are modeling high level concepts in functional languages for example, does it really matter if you don't know what a logic gate is or how processes are scheduled?

> point 3)

Agreed.

I would say whatever questions you chose, it will only filter out for a certain type of programmer. Your questions are most likely targeted at C/C++ systems programmers.

Re: Top Tech Companies: You filter on raw IQ, here is how to do it more effectively

#16
post #4

This post is a mischaracterization of why tech companies as basic coding questions. Or at least Microsoft, where I learned to interview and coached my own team of interviewers over several years. 1) Basic coding questions are a nice filter. If you can't remove an element from a doubly-linked list in C on a whiteboard immediately after graduating, what were you doing the last four/five years? It's like the height sign…

> point 1) I remember what a doubly linked list is but I wouldn't remember C well enough to pass the test. Does that make me a bad programmer? > point 2) Depending on the position, this might or might not matter. If you are modeling high level concepts in functional languages for example, does it really matter if you don't know what a logic gate is or how processes are scheduled? > point 3) Agreed. I would say whatev…

> I remember what a doubly linked list is but I wouldn't remember C well enough to pass the test. Does that make me a bad programmer?

Unless the position was for a C role, Most people would accept psuedo code, or help you along with enough syntax to get you through.

Re: Top Tech Companies: You filter on raw IQ, here is how to do it more effectively

#17
The game Set would appear at first glimpse to be the same sort of raw-horsepower IQ test.

And yet, skilled players are substantially better than unskilled players. They also tend to be formidably intelligent people, but any game may be gamed.

Re: Top Tech Companies: You filter on raw IQ, here is how to do it more effectively

#18
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except for cops.

And the military.

I can't say I object to people who probably have access to lethal weaponry being required to have a minimum level of intelligence.

But I'm not a gun advocate.

Re: Top Tech Companies: You filter on raw IQ, here is how to do it more effectively

#19
Raw IQ should only be one of several components to consider. There are many proxies for determining raw IQ, but the proxies themselves should not be the end goal.

Remember that writing maintainable code is also about communicating an idea -- knowing how to pick the right word to describe a variable or function -- knowing how to document your code succinctly, are critical and have a significant effect on a company's bottom line in the long-run.

Furthermore, you want to hire someone who will not negatively affect the productivity of his coworkers with his attitude. He must be able to work productively in a team setting.

Re: Top Tech Companies: You filter on raw IQ, here is how to do it more effectively

#20
post #4

This post is a mischaracterization of why tech companies as basic coding questions. Or at least Microsoft, where I learned to interview and coached my own team of interviewers over several years. 1) Basic coding questions are a nice filter. If you can't remove an element from a doubly-linked list in C on a whiteboard immediately after graduating, what were you doing the last four/five years? It's like the height sign…

> point 1) I remember what a doubly linked list is but I wouldn't remember C well enough to pass the test. Does that make me a bad programmer? > point 2) Depending on the position, this might or might not matter. If you are modeling high level concepts in functional languages for example, does it really matter if you don't know what a logic gate is or how processes are scheduled? > point 3) Agreed. I would say whatev…

larsberg dated himself by saying C; most companies today would want you to do it in your choice of either Java or C++. They would let you use objects, not make you do it with structs.
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