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antirez.com

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Re: San Francisco

#171

Post by tommaxwell »

baddox wrote: post #72
lnanek2 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha, yeah, I stayed at the StartupHouse a bit too. It was great being right in the middle of the city and being able to walk a block for groceries or tech meetups. Got a lot of coding done too! Too bad someone filed a complaint and got it shut down. I've never found the cost for living terribly high. All I need is a private room in a shared dwelling. The most I've ever paid for that is $2000/month in the center of S…

> I've never found the cost for living terribly high. All I need is a private room in a shared dwelling. That's fair enough, and describes me when I moved to SF straight out of college. It's probably also fine (even necessary) if you're a student or bootstrapping your own startup. But I've only been here two years, and it didn't take long for me to get sick of having a home situation that's in many ways worse than wh…

Like the commenter above, I stayed at StartupHouse for awhile, actually until they got shut down. It was pretty awesome to have my own bed, good WiFi, and be in the middle of SOMA for ~$1,000/month. I also interned at a startup in SF and lived pretty happily during that time. I was being paid $40k/year, but it was a 6-month internship so really only $20K. But I lived pretty well. I had a bed to sleep on in the city, I went out with friends on the weekends, and had a great time. I guess it all depends on your priorities and the standard of living you're looking for.

Re: San Francisco

#172

Post by liveinoakland »

Throwadev wrote: post #90
pfarrell wrote: post #87

I moved to the Bay Area, with my family, 8 months ago. We tried to make SF work (and did live in temporary housing in SOMA for three months), but SF is not a place for young children (unless you are beyond financial constraints). I commute to SOMA every day from Rockridge. Rockridge is nice, except for Oakland's inability to provide an adequately sized police force! All the tech things antirez outlined are true, but…

Can you elaborate on lack of police? Have you been affected by the crime in Rockridge? I thought it was a pretty decent area the last time I visited.

rockridge is 100x safer and nicer than many of the places where people flock to in SF, as is grand lake, as is jack london square, as is piedmont, as is temescal... oakland has some of the nicest neighborhoods and most coveted real estate in the entire bay. drive around the hills sometime. the "oakland is dangerous" meme is laughable. you are in trouble in parts of west oakland and far east in fruitvale. just like in bayview/hunter's point in SF. welcome to oakland! now I can't compare it to suburbs in the midwest, but if you take it as a city, oakland is already an incredible place and one of the last places you can get good housing on a normal person's salary in the bay.

Re: San Francisco

#173

Post by hnriot »

ryanSrich wrote: post #80

Eh. They can keep it. • Average engineering salary in sf: 116K / year [1] • Average rent for a one bedroom: $2,700 / month [2] After taxes you're coming in around 72k / year - 32k / year for rent You'll have roughly 40k to play with. That may sound like a lot but factor in food, health care, travel, energy, internet, phone, and numerous miscellaneous expenses and you'll be hard pressed to save anything over 10k a yea…

Hogwash. You don't need to spend that on an apartment.

Re: San Francisco

#174

Post by liveinoakland »

dontAgree wrote: post #116
pfarrell wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oakland has about 600 police officers for a population which requires around 1,100. There have been five robberies on my street in upper rockridge, where we rent. It's an incredibly beautiful neighborhood and we pay a pretty high rent to live there. In 2010, the police announced that for a long list of crimes (including burgularies) they will not come out. We have caught people casing our neighborhood, strangers sitt…

Oh typical petty crime. BRING ON THE POLICE! "Oakland could be an incredible town". It already is. If you don't appreciate it, then go elsewhere? Berkeley may be more of your taste (lots of granola for ya).

in rockridge, they are pretty much in berkeley already. oakland "could be" an incredible town? coming from someone who moved here 8 months ago? this guy is trolling on the out-of-towner's ruining the bay meme, and we're falling for it

Re: San Francisco

#175

Post by jamesaguilar »

nilkn wrote: post #123
jamesaguilar wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can certainly save money if you make that much living in sf. Your take home would be about 65k. A very nice apartment shared with one roommate should not cost more than 2k a month, leaving you with 40k for food, entertainment, and travel. If you can't save some of this that is a comment on your priorities, not the fundamental difficulty of living in sf.

For comparison, my roommate and I in Houston pay $1950/month for our apartment (or $975/person). 1300 sq ft, brand new hardwood floor, granite countertops, stainless steel appliances, huge windows, rain showers, full-sized washer/dryer in-unit, concierge service, etc. I also walk to work; it takes me about 5 minutes. So we're paying almost exactly half what the rent would be in SF, assuming the apartment you had in m…

> We individually make a lot more than half the wage we'd get if we went to SF, though.

But, you live in a place where it is unpleasant to be outside well more than half the year, and the typical dev in your area gets paid a lot less than the typical dev in SF (and, remember that ratios aren't really important when it comes to saving, only net [1]). Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Houston is a fine place for you, but it's important to be complete rather than just stating the pros.

[1] I.e. you make twice what it costs to live in Houston, while I make only 25% more what it costs to live in SF. But if it cost $10000 to live in Houston and $100000 to live in SF, I'm still better off.

Re: San Francisco

#176

Post by to3m »

bifrost wrote: post #5

> The coffee is very different than the Italian one I've heard this many times :) His point about SF lacking children is very very accurate. SF basically forces people with families out because its so expensive and the school situation is bad (your kids don't get to go to the neighborhood school). One of these days SF will wise up and at least fix the school problem, but until then the peninsula will get families and…

The comment about lack of children in San Francisco reminded me of this piece: http://www.sweet-juniper.com/2007/09/rhythm-of-memory.html

Re: San Francisco

#177

Post by hack_edu »

potatolicious wrote: post #153
ryanSrich wrote: post #80

Eh. They can keep it. • Average engineering salary in sf: 116K / year [1] • Average rent for a one bedroom: $2,700 / month [2] After taxes you're coming in around 72k / year - 32k / year for rent You'll have roughly 40k to play with. That may sound like a lot but factor in food, health care, travel, energy, internet, phone, and numerous miscellaneous expenses and you'll be hard pressed to save anything over 10k a yea…

Your math is reasonably fair, IMO. That being said, the type of work being done in DC and SF is vastly different. I attended an iOS conference in DC a few months ago (I'm based out of NYC) and was shocked at how few "tech company" people were present. Nearly everyone was working for a government agency, a government contractor, or freelancing with a primarily government client-base. Personally I don't think I can do…

Whoa-whoa-whoa hold up. The spiraling cost of rent 'threatens the well-being of our industry?' I say this as an engineer who's worked in the local industry during both booms and as a native-born "local." Sure, perhaps but only just like it does for every other industry besides fancy restaurants and cafes. Rent is too damn high and no one wants to pay it, and we seem to be the only ones who can. But lets get some perspective here. I'm willing to posit that the relative high rent prices has give our industry to greatest boost of all in town [quick edit: for clarification if everyone is pushed out and only tech workers can move in, does that not just create room for more founders? Not at all arguing that wasted money is good].

This city is still the Gold Rush, always has been. People move here with the dream to make a ton of money and have a good time, most likely moving away after Its only now, with this Second Boom's influx of new businesses into the City Proper and the realization company-provided motorcoaches to bust the commute, that the tech workers are really pouring into SF. We're the only ones who can afford to live, so we stay here, working more and founding more businesses. If the price continues to go up (mark my words, no more than 30% above now), rather than be threatened, the industry will slowly spread out to the periphery. What is startup-rich Soma was urban blight during the 90's, the periphery.

I'd be the first to argue that urban development is good, especially when done effectively (not the conversion of existing rental space into high-HOA condos), and quickly (unlike commercial real estate development in Soma and South Beach). Just realize that we are the kings of this age of this city, and we are the last ones who would be at threat, especially when you can just move East or South and ride the comfy bus in to work.

tl;dr Nothing threatens tech but the drying up of capital to be invested in new business. Rent and/or supply is far, far down on the list of even those potential threats to the SF tech industry.

Re: San Francisco

#178

Post by [deleted] »

rdl wrote: post #119
pfarrell wrote: post #87

I moved to the Bay Area, with my family, 8 months ago. We tried to make SF work (and did live in temporary housing in SOMA for three months), but SF is not a place for young children (unless you are beyond financial constraints). I commute to SOMA every day from Rockridge. Rockridge is nice, except for Oakland's inability to provide an adequately sized police force! All the tech things antirez outlined are true, but…

Piedmont, however, is really nice. If I had a particular need for decent schools or a police force, I'd probably live there. There is a decent shopping area near Piedmont in Oakland (confusingly, on Piedmont Ave), similar to Rockridge. The problem with Piedmont is lack of BART vs Rockridge or Oakland Uptown. Around 19th st BART is ok if you have no kids; it is only particularly dangerous on the other side of Telegrap…

[deleted]

Re: San Francisco

#179

Post by hoov »

lobotryas wrote: post #88
ryanSrich wrote: post #80

Eh. They can keep it. • Average engineering salary in sf: 116K / year [1] • Average rent for a one bedroom: $2,700 / month [2] After taxes you're coming in around 72k / year - 32k / year for rent You'll have roughly 40k to play with. That may sound like a lot but factor in food, health care, travel, energy, internet, phone, and numerous miscellaneous expenses and you'll be hard pressed to save anything over 10k a yea…

You are forgetting the weather. DC winters: cold, snow, sometimes blizzard, have to scrape your car free from ice if you don't have indoor parking. SF winters: sometimes you have to put in a jacket and sometimes it rains. That's it. This is just one example of many. It's pointless to compare two cities on rent and cost of living alone. Now, if the extra 11k is worth the winter challenges to you then I'm happy. Person…

Some people find seasons preferable. I plan on moving back to Boston for that reason alone.

The lack of seasons in SF makes me feel like it's Groundhog Day. I'd gladly take some snow in exchange for the other seasons. For me, summer feels much better after a long winter.

Re: San Francisco

#180

Post by hack_edu »

dontAgree wrote: post #116
pfarrell wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oakland has about 600 police officers for a population which requires around 1,100. There have been five robberies on my street in upper rockridge, where we rent. It's an incredibly beautiful neighborhood and we pay a pretty high rent to live there. In 2010, the police announced that for a long list of crimes (including burgularies) they will not come out. We have caught people casing our neighborhood, strangers sitt…

Oh typical petty crime. BRING ON THE POLICE! "Oakland could be an incredible town". It already is. If you don't appreciate it, then go elsewhere? Berkeley may be more of your taste (lots of granola for ya).

Rockridge is far, far more crunchy than any part of Berkeley these days...
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