AngularJS versus Ember • Hacker News Board

Re: AngularJS versus Ember

#91

Post by prollyignored » Sun, Jun 16, 2013, 10:14 PM UTC

danneu wrote: post #84

pron wrote: post #11

...At that point, what was the advantage of Sinatra? You were basically running a Rails application. Framework simplicity is good if your application is meant to be simple. But you should be cautious when choosing simplicity if your application is ambitious and you care about supporting it for a long time. This is what I like about Clojure. It is so composable, that simplicity doesn't come at the expense of features.…

Clojure's namespace declaration: (ns my-app.my-namespace (:require [some-library.some-namespace :as foo]) is pretty liberating for me after working with Ruby for so long. Composition is tedious to reason about in Ruby when your only clue is a menagerie of `require`s at the top of the file. Or, more commonly, when your only clue is a Gemfile because all the gems are auto-required and omnipresent.

An offtopic clojure question.

Today I was seeing this -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knuth-Morris-Pratt_algorithm

How can I begin to implement it in clojure ?

Specifically, how do I _ingeneral_ deal with assignments and while loops.

In common-lisp, for example I would use the `loop` macro and defvar-sefq combo, (beginning lisper).

In ruby, = and while itself.

Re: AngularJS versus Ember

#92

Post by eric_bullington » Sun, Jun 16, 2013, 10:17 PM UTC

olalonde wrote: post #12

A higher level framework makes you more productive but a single bug can get you stuck for hours, days or weeks. A lower level framework doesn't make you as much productive but you have a better mental model of what is going on and bugs get solved quickly. Keep in mind when choosing a framework.

I wish I could upvote this a million times. And yet, I repeatedly inflict this problem on myself.. I'll look at some high-level framework for X, and I'll think "oh cool, look how easy it makes everything, let me just use that for my next project". So I set up everything in 2 hours, then spend the next two days tripping over some ridiculous issue with authentication, or ORM, or some other bug.

The best success I've had for my modest web projects has been when I've used Flask and accompanying tools for server-side (I'm guessing Sinatra would work just as well), and Backbone for client-side apps. It takes a while to set up, but I understand everything that is going on, so I can easily fix problems as they occur.

Re: AngularJS versus Ember

#93

Post by Kiro » Sun, Jun 16, 2013, 10:33 PM UTC

saurabhnanda wrote: post #17

Is there anyone out there who has written non-trivial applications (i.e. a _lot more_ than the quintessential todo app) in both, AngularJS & EmberJS and can offer a non-biased opinion? Some time ago, I started off with AngularJS, I liked what I saw (except the dirty checking part) and started building my product / startup with it. I don't have the time to stop all dev and experiment with EmberJS, but would like to kn…

What problems did you encounter with dirty checking?

Re: AngularJS versus Ember

#94

Post by laureny » Sun, Jun 16, 2013, 10:37 PM UTC

> I believe it's unlikely that "not even close" is at all accurate.

Especially since the opening argument of the author is that AngularJS is gaining momentum because "it is simpler".

My personal experience is that when I ported my application from Ember to Angular, my code base (~5,000 lines) get simplified considerably. Based on what I've been reading, I'm not the only one making these observations.

My main beef with Ember was not about complexity or simplicity, just that it's not as powerful as AngularJS and it also covers only a small part of what AngularJS gives me out of the box (especially server side includes).

Re: AngularJS versus Ember

#95

Post by danneu » Sun, Jun 16, 2013, 10:40 PM UTC

prollyignored wrote: post #91

danneu wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clojure's namespace declaration: (ns my-app.my-namespace (:require [some-library.some-namespace :as foo]) is pretty liberating for me after working with Ruby for so long. Composition is tedious to reason about in Ruby when your only clue is a menagerie of `require`s at the top of the file. Or, more commonly, when your only clue is a Gemfile because all the gems are auto-required and omnipresent.

An offtopic clojure question. Today I was seeing this -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knuth-Morris-Pratt_algorithm How can I begin to implement it in clojure ? Specifically, how do I _ingeneral_ deal with assignments and while loops. In common-lisp, for example I would use the `loop` macro and defvar-sefq combo, (beginning lisper). In ruby, = and while itself.

Clojure has most of the semantics you're used to in other languages.

http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/let

    (let [username "prollyignored"
          karma 7]
      (println username "has" karma "karma points."))

    ; prollyignored has 7 karma points.

http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/1.2.0/clojure.core/loop

    (loop [n 0]
      (when ( 0123456789

http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/for

    (for [x [0 1 2 3 4 5]
          :let [y (* x 3)]
          :when (even? y)]
      y)

    ;=> (0 6 12)

Or just:

    (filter even? (map #(* % 3) [0 1 2 3 4 5]))

    ;=> (0 6 12)

Browse the Clojure cheatsheet: http://clojure.org/cheatsheet

Re: AngularJS versus Ember

#96

Post by Helianthus » Sun, Jun 16, 2013, 10:49 PM UTC

saurabhnanda wrote: post #18

I just have the "feeling" that with Discourse being written in EmberJS, people are mindlessly going to flock to it without really looking at anything else. And even if AngularJS really is better, it will be left behind. Just because...

Angular and Backbone are currently the frontrunners, by a _lot_.

Re: AngularJS versus Ember

#97

Post by ww520 » Sun, Jun 16, 2013, 10:54 PM UTC

moomin wrote: post #32

I haven't much experience of either framework, but seriously, they're both way too complicated for what they do. Knockout is about the right level of complexity for the problem space, but Angular has the right engineering. But what does it need an IoC implementation for? I'm happy to accept the problem is hard, but I doubt it's so complex it's impossible to decompose.

I use Knockout, too, and it has served me well. All the computed methods and model change detection are trivial in Knockout.

Re: AngularJS versus Ember

#98

Post by erikpukinskis » Sun, Jun 16, 2013, 10:57 PM UTC

yajoe wrote: post #75

pbiggar wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 10k+ apps on each Ember, Angular, and Backbone Have you written about them? I haven't come across anyone who has enough experience with more than one of them to comment broadly.

I'm definitely not qualified to provide an opinion. My short summary: Backbone was tiring for me and my partner with all the files and code to set up each view. I also never liked putting templates in script tags -- it just felt dirty. We see Ember and Angular as similar (how do you pick which language you like?), and we only picked one for atheistic reasons (data-binding in HTML) in our current project. Since I have…

I'm confused about what sense Ember doesn't have data binding in HTML. How is this not data binding in HTML:

   {{name}}

... genuine question from someone who hasn't built much more than toy apps in Ember and Angular.

Re: AngularJS versus Ember

#99

Post by nailer » Sun, Jun 16, 2013, 10:57 PM UTC

1qaz2wsx3edc wrote: post #88

EvilTrout wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In many (not all) Angular applications, the server is responsible for the model (think a Parse or other REST-style backend), and the Angular app is simply responsible for rendering it. My question is then: why are people purposely choosing not to use the advantages of client side MVC code? All of a sudden we have access to all these awesome features of long lived applications and people are choosing patterns that d…

I've worked with both frameworks. You're too quick to judge Angular. Secondly, I suggest you watch Angular 1.2 & beyond: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W13qDdJDHp8&feature=c4-overvi... For instance, scope will be optional in the future, not only that but the roadmap for Angular Next is very impressive (see around the 44:40 mark). --- Angular is accelerating; it has more stars/watchers/staff than Ember. Embers' core d…

Angular wasn't invented at Google (it was invented by Angular company, which got acqui-hired by Google) and some Google staffers have mentioned Angular breaks a few documented Google rules for creating Javascript MVC frameworks.

I suspect Angular's popularity has more to do with a logo than features.

- The unnecessary new module system is a massive waste of time and obviously doesn't play well with others

- It's the first MVC framework I've used that can't properly loop over an array or primitives (the partials for the primitives be displayed,but changes to them won't flow back to the parent as Angular can't make a $parent (IIRC) key.

Also: 'NG' just fucking doesn't stand for Angular.

Re: AngularJS versus Ember

#100

Post by electrotype » Sun, Jun 16, 2013, 11:12 PM UTC

I'm mostly a backend web developer but I'm really curious to see where Google is going with Dart + AngularJS. I think there may be something interesting there, for those like me who don't like javascript!