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Linux has better hardware support than OS X

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Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#91

Post by iano »

chc wrote: post #61
edent wrote: post #28

Interestingly, I run Ubuntu on a MacBook and a MacBook Air. As they are a "fixed" target, I figured that at least one developer would have made sure that they "just worked". And, indeed, they did. The installation tutorial was comprehensive, the out of the box experience was great, and upgrades have gone smoothly. The only thing to note was that I was able to manually update the WiFi drivers for (supposedly) better p…

Really? That's good to hear. I know support for MacBooks used to be quite poor in Ubuntu. I'm not sure when they got it up to snuff, but I know as recently as a couple of years ago (the last time I tried it), waking up from sleep was still a crapshoot on a MacBook Pro. Maybe it would wake up, maybe your trackpad would even still work after it woke up — but you were never sure.

I thought the same, but as chance should have it I finally installed Ubuntu on my mpb yesterday. It went off without a hitch, and as far as I can tell everything works out of the box (wireless, dual monitors, sound, even all of the Mac function keys!).

It was a surprisingly pleasant experience.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#92

Post by mjg59 »

rsync wrote: post #76
edent wrote: post #28

Interestingly, I run Ubuntu on a MacBook and a MacBook Air. As they are a "fixed" target, I figured that at least one developer would have made sure that they "just worked". And, indeed, they did. The installation tutorial was comprehensive, the out of the box experience was great, and upgrades have gone smoothly. The only thing to note was that I was able to manually update the WiFi drivers for (supposedly) better p…

Exactly. If there is any hardware platform that should be a "reference" platform for Linux (or FreeBSD) it should be the mac. It's a very tightly focused hardware ecosystem with broad adoption and of higher quality - inside and out.

It's a very tightly focused hardware ecosystem with no publicly available documentation for the ways that it differs from the broader hardware ecosystem. Supporting Apple hardware well is hard, and I say that as a person who's done a lot of work on Linux support for Macs.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#94

Post by sciurus »

steveklabnik wrote: post #57
sciurus wrote: post #46

Six years ago I bought an Inspiron 14 that Dell sold with Ubuntu. A few weeks ago I got an XPS 13, the model Dell now sells with Ubuntu (although I didn't purchase the developer version because it had a longer shipping time and I needed it ASAP). Unfortunately, even on this "reference" hardware there are many frustrations. I installed 64-bit Ubuntu 13.04. Supposedly all of the special tweaks Dell makes to the version…

If you didn't buy the version with the OS installed, then it's not the same comparison. When you buy a MacBook, OS X is already installed and working. I don't know a whole lot about the Dells, but isn't the same true otherwise?

And if I wipe a MacBook's hard drive, I'll be able to reinstall and everything will still be working.

Anyway, the blog post I was responding to doesn't make this distinction. It argued that there are certain laptop models that you can purchase and expect to be as well supported by a Linux distribution as Apple hardware is by OS X. Other people have pointed out that this isn't true for many Thinkpads. I wanted to let people know that even the Dell hardware he mentioned has problems.

Additionally, I wanted to point out that it isn't just a question of compatibility with the computer itself. There are many peripheral devices, like smartphones, that matter.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#95

Post by jlgreco »

coldtea wrote: post #51
coldtea wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, Linux doesn't have all that great driver support in that handpicked hardware from Lenovo. Lots of stuff have Win/Mac only drivers.

Yes, I do. Most stuff in my field of multimedia, from top notch quality items available for other platforms (Apogee stuff, UAD Apollo, Black Magic Cinema camera) to prosumer products, including many consumer stuff which only have some community drivers that don't let you use all the functionality.

Is that stuff hardware from Lenovo? I am not familiar with any of it but briefly googling it, it does not seem to be.

I think you might be misunderstanding the claim that is being made.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#96

Post by wrl »

coldtea wrote: post #42
fragmede wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author's point is that there IS handpicked hardware from Lenovo (for certain models), by design, and something Intel, among others, put a lot of energy, money and dedication into. Linux absolutely should benefit from this over other OSes, as it did not come for free.

And yet, Linux doesn't have all that great driver support in that handpicked hardware from Lenovo. Lots of stuff have Win/Mac only drivers.

A brand-new T430s worked out-of-the box with Arch. Everything came stock in the kernel, and everything worked and still works perfectly.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#97

Post by ownagefool »

th0br0 wrote: post #6

Actually, even ThinkPads aren't the inofficial reference platform these days either... I've had this W520 for the past 2 years and, while running with NVIDIA graphics, I can neither boot without specific kernel options (pci=noacpi) nor can I change the brightness after the kernel is loaded (pre-kernel changes are fine and stay after boot. Even changing brightness after kernel load but before loading of the nvidia mod…

I doubt there is a reference platform, but if there is one it's really with intel graphics. Only this, from a laptop point of view, has the kind of support that is needed from a thermals point of view. AMD is apparently nearly there with new power managment code, so this may change in the future.

Obviously if you want to use binary drivers, you can, but one would hardly call that reference, inofficial or not.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#98

Post by jlgreco »

mjg59 wrote: post #93
shalmanese wrote: post #79

Linux doesn't "just work" on Thinkpads either. Here's a list of all the known linux incompatibilities with Thinkpads: http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Known_Problems

None of those issues refer to current models.

Additionally, at least several of those just seem to be known hardware bugs or failure modes.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#99

Post by jlgreco »

rubiquity wrote: post #37
wmoxam wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes no sense to miss brew on Linux ... The only reason brew exists is because OSX doesn't have an official package manager. Also what problems did you have with rbenv on Linux? It seemed to work just fine the last time I used it ...

I think the interface that brew provides is very simple and easy to use. The terminal output during installation is nice. Again, it's the extra little polishing of these OS X tools that I think really draws people to them and keep using them. In regards to rbenv, the "core" part of rbenv(switching between versions of Ruby) works fine. It's the other tools like ruby-build and rbenv-install that didn't work for me. I d…

There is always pkgsrc. pkgsrc works, well, everywhere.

Re: Linux has better hardware support than OS X

#100

Post by brown »

jfarmer wrote: post #68

This is silly. Although I'm sure it's gotten much better since I regularly used Linux on the desktop, you always had to do some amount of due diligence about what hardware worked well with it and what hardware didn't. For example, because I use OS X, I can go to any store, purchase my choice of Lexmark printer, and be on my merry way with a minimal amount of checking. The fact that I have to know that there's a "refe…

I generally agree with your main point (that knowing about reference hardware is burdensome).

However, your specific example (printers) is outdated. Both Linux and OSX use CUPS, which was acquired by Apple in 2007. Linux printer support is pretty spectacular these days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CUPS#History

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